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Old 07-07-2008, 08:45 PM   #1
mr. magoo
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Default Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Tyson cleaned out his division much more thoroughtly than Liston did, regardless of claims about Liston beating the likes of men like Valdez, Machen, Williams, etc. He would have bullied the bully.
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Old 07-07-2008, 10:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

This is one of my dream fights. Liston and Tyson had comparable "rises" to the top, in my opinion. I favor a Prime Tyson over just about anyone, so I'll say Tyson here, but just a slight lean.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

While Wealthy Elite masturbates to his imaginary MegaTyson at ringside of this imaginary bout and gets arrested like Pee Wee Herman for exhibitionism, Liston would show the "Manchild" what "a Man" is. And he'd be doing it gradually and painfully.

Tyson would be expected to do some damage early, but I just don't see Liston getting hurt or not bending his knees and returning fire when Tyson is in range. And Tyson would be preoccupied with that telephone pole of a jab -and wary about what's coming behind it.

It is well-established that Tyson was not effective without forward motion. Liston had more than enough strength to move him off balance and backwards. And he could hit like hell and had a defense that was better than the majority of HW champions.

Tyson would fade precipitously with every round -not only physically but emotionally.

Tyson was a fake thug.

Liston was a real-life bad-ass.

Tyson was known to beat up these:
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Ask this guy what Liston did to him one night in Vegas outside the Thunderbird:

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Old 07-08-2008, 03:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

The authentic badass bully (Liston) beats the wannabe badass bully (Tyson). Closely contested fight, though. Liston TKO10.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

What about a guy who chomps pieces of his opponents ear(s) off whilst he's getting his ass whipped in a boxing match. Is that badass?
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealthy Elite
I guess being a mob enforcer and beating up innocent people is far more BADASS than someone who commited crimes as a jackass teenager.


Liston is too slow and too small to beat tyson.
Open your dreamy eyes and learn something.

1. Mob enforcers rarely beat up "innocent" people.

2. Tyson's violence against old people didn't stop when he got into his 20s, or his 30s -when he attacked two men after a minor traffic incident -the guy he punched was 62 years old and he kicked the other one in the groin. Does that turn you on?
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Liston would show the "Manchild" what "a Man" is.
Liston is not my definition of a man. His psyche is about as suspect as Tyson's. Liston himself folded like a cheap suit to Clay's childlike mind games and moderate trouble in defending the crown. To me Liston is not the one to expose Tyson's fragility.

Liston is a step behind Tyson in speed and power. Tyson over Liston.
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Old 07-08-2008, 03:58 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Liston might just be the perfect stylistic foil for Tyson.

My reason for saying this is that Liston was a master on the back foot and knew how to make come forward fighters pay for every forward step.

Of course with a puncher like Tyson you can never be sure.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:38 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by prime
Liston is not my definition of a man. His psyche is about as suspect as Tyson's. Liston himself folded like a cheap suit to Clay's childlike mind games and moderate trouble in defending the crown. To me Liston is not the one to expose Tyson's fragility.

Liston is a step behind Tyson in speed and power. Tyson over Liston.
I concur with every word.



I also wonder what Desire Washington, Evander Holyfield and Mitch Green have to say about Tyson being a fake-thug.


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Not that it's a desireable trait or anything, but Tyson was every bit as psycho as Liston was. And at least he went out on his shield as a champ, unlike Liston.
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Old 07-08-2008, 04:58 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Not that it's a desireable trait or anything, but Tyson was every bit as psycho as Liston was.
Depends which type of psycho you are talking about.

Liston was probably more stable and in some ways a less randomly violent person.

However when it comes to criminal and street fighting credentials Liston was an altogether darker character.

Not that I would want either of them living next door to me.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:05 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
Depends which type of psycho you are talking about.

Liston was probably more stable and in some ways a less randomly violent person.

However when it comes to criminal and street fighting credentials Liston was an altogether darker character.

Not that I would want either of them living next door to me.
Liston less randomly violent? I wouldn't be too sure of that.

Here is an excerpt (spelling) of an article in Sports Illustrated, july 1961:

"Shortly before 3 a.m. on June 12 Mrs. Delores Ellis, a 29-year-old Negro woman, was driving home alone through Philidelphia's Fairmount Park when she noticed a car following her. The pursuing car drew alongside, a spotlight was played upon her and she was ordered to pull over and stop. Just then, John Warburton, a park guard, drove up. The two men turned off their lights and sped away. Warburton gave chase at speeds reaching 80 mph. When he overtook them, one man jumped out of the car and ran. Warburton fired a warning shot, and the fugitive halted. The driver remained motionless behind the wheel. Warburton remarked later, with some astonishment, that the driver's face was absolutely expressionless.

The two men were charged with impersonating an officer, extinguishing auto lights to avoid identification, resisting arrest, disorderly conduct and conspiracy, and were released on $300 bail. The driver of the car was identified as Sonny Liston , the No. 1 contender for the heavyweight championship of the world, at present held by Floyd Patterson. It was Liston's 19th arrest since 1950. On July 1 the charges were dismissed after a hearing conducted by Magistrate E. David Keiser. At the judge's suggestion, Liston and his companion apologized to Mrs. Ellis."

(..)

"
And Sonny Liston panicked and got in trouble again on the night of May 5, 1956. Trouble, in this instance, was Patrolman Thomas Mellow of the St. Louis police. "I was making my relief corner and passed an alley," Mellow said. "A cab was parked in it with the parking lights on. From the entrance to the alley I asked who the driver was. The driver came down, said his name was Patterson . I told him he could get a ticket, but I was going to let him move the cab. Then Liston came down. 'You can't give him no ticket,' he said, real rough like. 'The hell I can't,' I said. I took out my ticket book, flashlight, to get the city sticker number off the cab. As I started over, Liston came over and gave me a bear hug from the front, lifted me clear off the ground. I didn't realize what was happening until he grabbed me. Kind of caught me off guard. After they got me in the dark part of the alley, Patterson says, 'Get his gun.' We struggled, and all three of us fell. Liston got my gun out. Then Patterson says, 'Shoot that white son of a bitch.' Liston releases me and points the gun at my head. I'm pushing up on the barrel with both hands to keep from looking down that muzzle. They were walking all over me. I hollered: 'Don't shoot me.' "Liston let up all of a sudden," Mellow said, "hit me over the left eye with either the gun or his fist, it took seven stitches. My left leg was broken in the knee either from the fall or somebody stomping me. Then they run up the alley. That's the biggest man I ever.... When he give me that bear hug I couldn't even get my toes on the ground. He appeared to be drinking; the fellows that arrested him had a little trouble.""






Of course, that was the story of the cop. Liston had his own version of it and the truth probably lies in between, as usual. The article also says that Liston was said to have the mind of 12 year old when it came to these tactical decisions. Another interesting thing is that Liston said he was 200lbs when he was 16 years old. Wasn't the story that he didn't know his own age? In the article, he talks about his brothers and how they think he was born in 1932, as still is the consensus right now.
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Old 07-08-2008, 06:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Liston less randomly violent? I wouldn't be too sure of that.

Here is an excerpt (spelling) of an article in Sports Illustrated, july 1961:

Of course, that was the story of the cop. Liston had his own version of it and the truth probably lies in between, as usual. The article also says that Liston was said to have the mind of 12 year old when it came to these tactical decisions. Another interesting thing is that Liston said he was 200lbs when he was 16 years old. Wasn't the story that he didn't know his own age? In the article, he talks about his brothers and how they think he was born in 1932, as still is the consensus right now.
Liston was a man capable of extreme violence and became prone to violence while drunk. He apears to have raped at least two women and of course he broke legs for the maffia.

There were however some paradoxes to his personality.

He apears to have been a gentle husband and his wife vheamently defends him to this day. He was kind to children despite having a violent and abusive farther and had a sense of respect for elderly people.
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Old 07-08-2008, 08:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
What about a guy who chomps pieces of his opponents ear(s) off whilst he's getting his ass whipped in a boxing match. Is that badass?
Quitting on your stool against a light hitting fighter after quitting isn't exactly badass either.
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Old 07-08-2008, 09:05 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

wow both these fighters being harsly critisized on stuff that has nothingt to do with the ring, when dudes like lennox lewis and klit brothers who are worshipped here would be crucified in the ring by both liston and tyson.


Liston and tyson both are in my top 4 heavyweight list of all time. i like liston by late TKO in a close fight.
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Old 07-08-2008, 10:18 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mike Tyson beats Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
Liston might just be the perfect stylistic foil for Tyson.

My reason for saying this is that Liston was a master on the back foot and knew how to make come forward fighters pay for every forward step.

Of course with a puncher like Tyson you can never be sure.
This can actually work in reverse.

Movement and speed has always troubled Sonny Liston. Tyson has the headmovement and speed necessary to take minimal punishment while having the handspeed to retaliate with his own leather (Ok, so did Patterson) but the biggest difference between Patterson and Tyson is that Tyson was more explosive and fought far more aggresively.

Liston-Patterson I, Floyd showed me up until he was caught, was that a bob and weave peek-a-boo defense if used consistently can give any fighter with the physicalities of a world class fighter a serious advantage over Liston. (this includes Frazier, Marciano, Tua, Morrison- if his chin holds up, etc)

You dont beat Tyson by landing that one big punch. Liston's lack of handspeed means, that even if he does land on Mike it wont be in combination which is vital in beating Mike.
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