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Old 07-08-2008, 04:53 PM   #31
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
How much of his fights have you seen?
I have to say that I have not seen much of his career.

What I have observed in the fights I have seen however is that he makes verry little use of the uppercut and dose not have a well developed suite of infighting skills.

Now unless I am missing something this is a serious gap in his makeup. He might get away with it against Peter or Ibragimov but against a Liston or a Lewis it is going to be a problem.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:00 PM   #32
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

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If sombody has a heavy punch his chances against Wlad are significantly better than zero.
You must firstly hit the target and thats not easy with bad hand speed. His reflex are more than very good..
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:00 PM   #33
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

wlad would certainly have a much better chance than most old timers would have you believe.

wlads height, reach, skills and power are enough to give him a shot vs just about anyone in history.

but his chin is certainly his weak spot, as well as his stammina and he simply doesnt fight well when he is forced out of his gameplan.

he just is not a "give and take" type of guy. either he dominates or he loses. he doesnt get hurt, dropped battered and comes back and wins.

so in theory, beating wlad sounds easy.

in theory. but in reality, this is different. getting wlad out of his stride means you either have to bullrush and overwhelm him..............OR you have to back him up with your own superior jab and take it from there.
the latter has never been done.

and bullrushing a "on" wlad is like running through a minefield. if you walk into one of his shots, you get hurt. or worse. simple as that.

so could liston do either??

yes to the bullrush. outjab him and back him up.................maybe. maybe not.

but while people are quick to point out that wlad lacks that warriorlike "give and take" attitude..............dont forget, liston was a bit of a bully himself.

what would his mental reaction be to seeing wlad in person..........all 6´7 and 250 pounds of him??? and how would he react once he feels wlads considerable power??

cause this could work the other way round as well. envision the following scenario: wlad coming out and outjabbing liston, backing him with a couple of hard jabs, then a right hand.
liston backs into the ropes, wlad throws a double left hook..........first one hurts liston, the second one drops him. then liston just saying: no thank you sir...............and the ref counting ten.

the more i think about it, the greater i see wlads chances.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:15 PM   #34
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

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Originally Posted by Sakura
You must firstly hit the target and thats not easy with bad hand speed. His reflex are more than very good..
It is not that Listons hand speed is bad it just isnt as good as Wlads.

He made up for it in other ways however.

Liston was a master at reading an opponent.

While Wlad waits for an oponent to do something and then reacts to it, Liston predicted what his opponent would do next and often had the punche loaded and aimed before they moved into position.

This alowed him to beat much faster fighters to the punch.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

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Originally Posted by janitor
It is not that Listons hand speed is bad it just isnt as good as Wlads.

He made up for it in other ways however.

Liston was a master at reading an opponent.

While Wlad waits for an oponent to do something and then reacts to it, Liston predicted what his opponent would do next and often had the punche loaded and aimed before they moved into position.

This alowed him to beat much faster fighters to the punch.
Liston gives , in my opinion these advantages on Klitchko. Speed, Size, strenght and power...both are skilled fighters..can Liston win?
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:29 PM   #36
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
I have to say that I have not seen much of his career.

What I have observed in the fights I have seen however is that he makes verry little use of the uppercut and dose not have a well developed suite of infighting skills.

Now unless I am missing something this is a serious gap in his makeup. He might get away with it against Peter or Ibragimov but against a Liston or a Lewis it is going to be a problem.
Well, you are correct in that he doesn't utilise the uppercut much, but he always ties his opponent up in close and uses footwork and heavy powershots the rest of the time to stay on the outside. Like it or not, but he's neutralised every inside fighting skill with clinching. That is not to say he can't fight on the inside, of course. His left hook is extremely fast and powerful. Just that for a 6'6" man with long arms it's giving your opponent an advantage he should not have by fighting on the inside.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:32 PM   #37
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

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Originally Posted by Sakura
Liston gives , in my opinion these advantages on Klitchko. Speed, Size, strenght and power...both are skilled fighters..can Liston win?
Klitschko isnt as big and huge as some of you seem to think. He's pumped up on weights to get to 238lbs - naturally he's what? 210? He's more Ernie Terrell than Lennox lewis. He also has very short arms for a guy as tall as he is.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:33 PM   #38
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

Klitschko's reach is only 80", average for a heavy.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:35 PM   #39
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

Klitschko is a big man, but he isnt some 10ft tall invincible Terminator like you guys think, look how long and thin his neck is, thats a horrible physical disadvantage for a fighter.

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Old 07-08-2008, 05:37 PM   #40
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

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Originally Posted by Polymath
Klitschko's reach is only 80", average for a heavy.
More than average and if that is right reach. Wlad was 6'6 and we all see he was bigger than Austin or Thompson..boxrec numbers are often wrong.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:39 PM   #41
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

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Originally Posted by Sakura
More than average and if that is right reach. Wlad was 6'6 and we all see he was bigger than Austin or Thompson..boxrec numbers are often wrong.
Austin was listed 6-6 but is probably less - did you see David haye confront Klit? Haye looked 2-3 inches shorter and not much samller averall, and he's a Cruiserweight (ableit an oversized one.)
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:40 PM   #42
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

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Originally Posted by Sakura
More than average
Is it? How many good heavies do you see with 70-odd inch reaches? Not many.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:43 PM   #43
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

Dunno Luan krasnigi reach 30? and thompson 81,1/2, austin 80...
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:46 PM   #44
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Well, you are correct in that he doesn't utilise the uppercut much, but he always ties his opponent up in close and uses footwork and heavy powershots the rest of the time to stay on the outside. Like it or not, but he's neutralised every inside fighting skill with clinching.
He has neutralised every inside fighting skill in average fighters.

Give him sombody actualy who knows how to infight and it wont wash.
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Old 07-08-2008, 05:47 PM   #45
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Default Re: Wladimir Klitschko beats Sonny Liston

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Originally Posted by Sakura
Dunno Luan krasnigi reach 30? and thompson 81,1/2, austin 80...
That's arm length

And as youve just shown by listing Thompson & Autin, Klitschko's reach is nothing special
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