Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-09-2008, 09:11 AM   #46
Lobotomy
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 632
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wealthy Elite
so far im the only person to have answered correctly.
Not any more. I'm with you on this one.
Lobotomy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 09:18 AM   #47
Robbi
Marvelous
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan
............Lennox Lewis cannot be considered an all-time great; all-time greats do not get knocked out by people named Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman.

True or false?
False.
Robbi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 09:36 AM   #48
fists of fury
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: March for Revenge
Posts: 6,259
vCash: 1887
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobotomy
Not any more. I'm with you on this one.
I'm sure Zakman would feel likewise.
fists of fury is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 09:43 AM   #49
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,302
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

He dominated a great era for the division, avenged these two losses, which were to large, powerful modern heavies not to lightheavies or middles, losses to which other more fashionable ATG's have been absolved.

H2H, I pick Lewis over damn near anyone all-time.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-09-2008, 09:47 AM   #50
Lobotomy
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 632
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fists of fury
I'm sure Zakman would feel likewise.
No question. Zak's opinion of Lewis is well established here.
Lobotomy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 10:38 AM   #51
TommyV
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: South-East/Greater London.
Posts: 16,250
vCash: 1987
Default Re: True Or False?

False. He avenged those defeats. End of.
TommyV is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 10:51 AM   #52
Unforgiven
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 12,581
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

I think the McCall and Rahman defeats impact on Lewis's status but dont necessarily preclude him being an ATG (a term which has no strict universal definition anyway).

I dont rate Lewis as highly as some do because frankly I think his opposition was weak, and I rarely saw him look good winning.
Unforgiven is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 11:37 AM   #53
salsanchezfan
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 4,098
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyVercettiX
False. He avenged those defeats. End of.

..............See, I can't get on board with this line of thinking. The avenging of a loss does not mean that loss didn't happen. They did. I can quite clearly remember Lennox flat on his back on the canvas. Courtesy of the right hands of two clearly inferior opponents. If that isn't a ***** in someone's armor, I don't know what is.
salsanchezfan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 11:49 AM   #54
Hatesrats
"Al Grito De Guerra"
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Oxnard, CA
Posts: 28,545
vCash: 3000
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan
..............See, I can't get on board with this line of thinking. The avenging of a loss does not mean that loss didn't happen. They did. I can quite clearly remember Lennox flat on his back on the canvas. Courtesy of the right hands of two clearly inferior opponents. If that isn't a ***** in someone's armor, I don't know what is.
You are 100% correct bro^^^, I agree.

We can all sit here and say "Well, they landed a lucky shot"....
And maybe they did, but that same lucky shot work's both ways.
fact of the matter is, Lewis was Knocked out by both via "One Punch".
Yes he did avenge those defeat's, but they still exist.
(Even tho we would like to seep it under the rug)
Hatesrats is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 12:47 PM   #55
DINAMITA
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The Past
Posts: 10,079
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan
............Lennox Lewis cannot be considered an all-time great; all-time greats do not get knocked out by people named Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman.
Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan

True or false?


False.

In heavyweight boxing there is always a chance of being KO'd. If a 250lbs fighter catches you with one lucky swing at any point, it's likely you will fall. Lewis got caught like this twice in his whole career, and avenged both defeats with stoppage wins. The things that he achieved in his career mean more than two losses.

If you do believe that this prevents him from being an all-time great, then do you think that Evander Holyfield, Henry Armstrong, Manny Pacquiao, or Mike Tyson aren't ATGs then? Holyfield was stopped by a guy who fought at middleweight (Toney), Henry Armstrong lost 21 fights in his career, Manny Pacquiao was knocked out early in his career by a guy called Rustico Torrecampo, and Tyson was KO'd at his peak by Buster Douglas. Do these facts themselves mean that these guys cannot even be considered for ATG status? I don't think so. Like Lewis, their achievements mean more than these losses.
DINAMITA is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 03:50 PM   #56
Drew101
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: "...The Land of Dixon and Langford..."
Posts: 8,234
vCash: 3000
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan
..............See, I can't get on board with this line of thinking. The avenging of a loss does not mean that loss didn't happen. They did. I can quite clearly remember Lennox flat on his back on the canvas. Courtesy of the right hands of two clearly inferior opponents. If that isn't a ***** in someone's armor, I don't know what is.
They absolutely happened.

But, consider that McCall and Rahman, while certainly not A level, aren't nearly as bad as people have made them out to be. McCall was able to score some nice victories well into his 40's, while Rahman, while terribly inconsistant, was able to get the better of Tua in the 2nd fight, and defeat a younger, and probably better, version of Corrie Sanders that would go on to blitz Wlad Klitschko.

So, they were legit contenders, who happened to be better than anyone thought they were, and who also happened to be able to punch pretty damned hard, when so inclined.

Those factors will always lead to upsets.

In any event, the work that Lewis did aside from that is pretty staggering, so it depends on what you define as ATG status. I personally think Lewis is worthy of consideration for top 10 status at heavyweight, and falls into the 6th or 7th position rather easily. The two losses disqualify him from any higher ranking, but he was still a great, great fighter at his absolute best.
Drew101 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 09:58 PM   #57
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan
..............See, I can't get on board with this line of thinking. The avenging of a loss does not mean that loss didn't happen. They did. I can quite clearly remember Lennox flat on his back on the canvas. Courtesy of the right hands of two clearly inferior opponents. If that isn't a ***** in someone's armor, I don't know what is.
I think the point is it would be a lot lot worse if he didn't come back and avenge. Lord knows what we'd be reading then from the likes of Elite and co. Lewis came back and showed us the two losses were very much contrary to the norm. Lewis fought loads of opponents greater and more dangerous and his overall record shows these two losses to be anomalies more than common or expected happenings.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 10:44 PM   #58
punchy
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 897
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I think the point is it would be a lot lot worse if he didn't come back and avenge. Lord knows what we'd be reading then from the likes of Elite and co. Lewis came back and showed us the two losses were very much contrary to the norm. Lewis fought loads of opponents greater and more dangerous and his overall record shows these two losses to be anomalies more than common or expected happenings.
Lewis certainly avenged his losses much more so than Ali whose wins over Norton and Frazier are the subject of numerous debates here no one debates Lewis's victories and who else has knocked Rahman out like that.
punchy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 10:49 PM   #59
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,119
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

Quote:
Originally Posted by punchy
Lewis certainly avenged his losses much more so than Ali whose wins over Norton and Frazier are the subject of numerous debates here no one debates Lewis's victories and who else has knocked Rahman out like that.
Fair call Punchy. And how about Tyson with Douglas? Tho i often argue the semantics Tyson was statistically around his peak and they never fought again. Take the Tyson fight off the Douglas record and does he really read that much better than Rahman and McCall?
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2008, 10:56 PM   #60
Robbi
Marvelous
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: True Or False?

Lewis beat every opponent he faced. People continually say what works against him was his losses to average heavyweights, McCall and Rahman. But IMO Lewis gaining revenge over both evens things out. If Lewis never got those rematches then his resume wouldn't look too good. Understandable. Tyson never avenged any of his defeats. Boxing politics or not having the opportunity, don't give a dam. Tyson bottled it against Holyfield when he had the chance to turn the tables.
Robbi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013