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Old 07-23-2007, 07:02 PM   #16
Manassa
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

1. Ray Robinson
2. Jose Napoles
3. Emile Griffith
4. Ray Leonard
5. Kid Gavilan

Those are my definite top five, I will think about the rest. My most recent modification is replacing Griffith with Napoles and moving Leonard down.
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Old 07-23-2007, 08:31 PM   #17
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights


Top 10 welters

1 Ray Robinson
2 Ray Leonard
3 Kid Gavilan
4 Emile Griffith
5 Henry Armstrong
6 Jose Napoles
7 Felix Trinidad
8 Oscar De La Hoya
9 Thomas Hearns
10 Carmen Bassillo

Mentions to: Tommy Ryan, 'Mysterious' Billy Smith, 'The original' Joe Walcott, Mike Sullivan, Jack Britton, Ted 'Kid' Lewis, Mickey Walker, Jackie Fields, Barney Ross, Jim McLarnin, Fritzie Zivic, Red Cochrane, Benny 'Kid' Paret, Luis Rodriguez, Carlos Palomino, Pipino Cuevas, Roberto Duran, Don Curry, Marlon Starling, Pernell Whitaker and Shane Mosley

Best Latino's of all
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:43 AM   #18
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

1. Ray Robinson- Had it all
2. Jose Napoles- Smooth as the name implies
3. Ray Leonard- Great combination of speed & power
4. Emile Griffith- Great Boxer
5. Kid Gavilan- King of the "Bolo" Punch
6. Thomas Hearns- Awesome at Welterweight
7. Roberto Duran- Ruthless aggression
8. Henry Armstrong- A natural Lightweight, But an excellent Welter.
9. Wilfred Benitez- A defensive Genius
10. Pipino Cuevas- Hardest hitter in Welterweight History
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Old 07-24-2007, 01:47 AM   #19
C. M. Clay II
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sugar Ray Leonard
3. Thomas Hearns
4. Henry Armstrong
5. Barbados Joe Walcott
6. Jose Napoles
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Felix Trinidad
9. Emile Griffith
10. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

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Old 07-24-2007, 02:51 AM   #20
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by C. M. Clay II
10. Floyd Mayweather, Jr.

What a great fighter he is; but having him above Zivic, Kid Lewis, Burley etc., seems a little strange.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:03 AM   #21
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Street Lethal
Not a bad list. Jose Napoles should be higher and replace Ted Lewis with Ray Leonard. I am not sure about Benny Leonard.
Thanks. As I stated, this is subject to constant revision, and I've had Mantequilla higher in the past, and may again.

I've watched Benny Leonard closely on film (as just about everybody on ESC Classic has), and read extensive coverage of his match with Jack Britton. Harry Greb himself would have had no picnic with Benny at that stage of his career. (Don't forget that it was Benny who figured out Greb for Gene Tunney. Also don't forget that Henry Armstrong weighed 142 when he drew with Ceferino Garcia for Garcia's MW Title over 17 years later, in a challenge many thought Armstrong won.)

Kid Lewis has a massive body of work which Ray Leonard is lacking as a WW. Although I consider SRL to be a P4P ATG, I don't consider him an ATG in any single weight division. Finally, what Benny Leonard did to Jack Britton was actually more impressive than what Duran did to SRL in Montreal. What separates Duran from Benny Leonard at WW for me is Palomino, who Duran dominated, dropped and sent into retirement.

Once again, ask me in a week, and my list might look entirely different.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:24 AM   #22
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

My Top 10:

1. SRL*
2. SRR
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Jose Napoles
5. Kid Gavilan
6. Thomas Hearns
7. Pernell Whitaker
8. Carmen Basilo
9. Roberto Duran
10. Mickey Walker


*(Runs for cover)
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Old 07-24-2007, 06:33 AM   #23
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Science
1. Sugar Ray Robinson - Simply the best fighter ever to lace up gloves.

2. Sam Langford - He was so good no champion would risk fighting him.

3. Sugar Ray Leonard - Was almost as sweet as the real sugar.

4. Henry Armstrong - The man didn't know how to stop punching.

5. Joe Gans - I know he was a natural lightweight but fought much bigger fighters at welter; Walcott and Langford.

6. Pernell Whitaker - A defensive genius.

7. Thomas Hearns - A freak of nature.

8. Joe Walcott - Nat Fleischer rated him as the best welter he ever saw.

9. Floyd Mayweather - He has beaten everyone in his era and will continue to beat the remaining serious challengers Cotto and Hatton.

10. Roberto Duran - Better at lightweight but still a force at Welter as he showed in Montreal.

Well theres my list. My lists normally tend to favour the head2head criteria. But feel free to tear it apart as I invite constructive criticism and debate.

What does yours look like?
Its nice to see Lewis getting mentioned here but Jack Britton had the best of their series,and Jimmy Mclarninis as usual nearly forgotten,the problem with these guys is the vast number of no decs they fought,making it difficult to assess their abilities,Mclarnin for example had wins over lots of Champios but often enjoyed a weight advantage ,he could box and had a lethal right ,but was shrewdly managed.Barney Ross gets in my top ten not sure where.
My top ten in no order
Robinson
Leonard
Napoles
Griffith
Armstrong
Walcott
Mclarnin
Britton
Hearns
Lewis
Sub Gavilan
I place Walker ,Ryan among the middles Langford at midldle and lightheavy
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:32 AM   #24
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum
One-----SRR
Two-----Duran (Only Robinson could have defeated Montreal Duran)
Three--- Henry Armstrong
Four-----Benny Leonard (Had Jack Britton knocked out, chose a DQ)
Five-----Emile Grffith
Six------Barney Ross
Seven---Kid Gavilan
Eight----Mickey Walker
Nine-----Jose Napoles
Ten-----Ted Lewis

Note: Subject to constant revision.
The other Leonard is conspicuously absent.
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:16 AM   #25
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
The other Leonard is conspicuously absent.
11-----Barbados Joe Walcott
12-----Jack Britton
13-----Jimmy McLarnin
14-----Carmen Basilio
15-----Fritzie Zivic
16-----Tommy Ryan
17-----Luis Manuel Rodriguez
18-----Curtis Cokes
19-----Carlos Palomino
20-----Pipino Cuevas
21-----Wilfredo Benitez
22-----Thomas Hearns
23-----Donald Curry
24-----Lloyd Honeyghan
25-----Young Corbett III
26-----Ray Charles Leonard
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:36 AM   #26
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum
11-----Barbados Joe Walcott
12-----Jack Britton
13-----Jimmy McLarnin
14-----Carmen Basilio
15-----Fritzie Zivic
16-----Tommy Ryan
17-----Luis Manuel Rodriguez
18-----Curtis Cokes
19-----Carlos Palomino
20-----Pipino Cuevas
21-----Wilfredo Benitez
22-----Thomas Hearns
23-----Donald Curry
24-----Lloyd Honeyghan
25-----Young Corbett III
26-----Ray Charles Leonard
Doesn't make any sense, you have Duran number #2 based on his win over Leonard who is number #26. Thats a great win...
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:37 AM   #27
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum
26-----Ray Charles Leonard


So low?
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:41 AM   #28
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab


So low?
Aww shoot, I thought I'd get a better rise than that out of dismayed ESB Classic posters. (Guess I just gotta be a little more patient.)
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:48 AM   #29
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum
One-----SRR
Two-----Duran (Only Robinson could have defeated Montreal Duran)
Three--- Henry Armstrong
Four-----Benny Leonard (Had Jack Britton knocked out, chose a DQ)
Five-----Emile Grffith
Six------Barney Ross
Seven---Kid Gavilan
Eight----Mickey Walker
Nine-----Jose Napoles
Ten-----Ted Lewis

Note: Subject to constant revision.
Sorry but, Hearns will beat Duran anytime. Leonard is definately a top 5. Maybe even #2.
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Old 07-24-2007, 09:08 AM   #30
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Default Re: My Top 10 Greatest Welterweights

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum
Aww shoot, I thought I'd get a better rise than that out of dismayed ESB Classic posters. (Guess I just gotta be a little more patient.)
You're entitled to personal views (as we all are), I was just curious as to what your reasons are. I think it's more than a bit harsh, as I've never seen him so low on any such list.

Place your argument, chum.
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