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Old 07-12-2008, 04:32 PM   #1
Russell
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Default Herol Graham - How Avoided?

How avoided was he by the big four during the 80's?

Doing a little bit of searching you'll find that he was Hearn's number-one contender in 1983, then Hagler's in 86'!

Herol was undefeated from his debut in 78' to 87', almost a entire decade.

What if he'd of replaced Mugabi or Leonard against Hagler, late in Marvin's career?

What if he'd gotten a chance against Duran? I have no doubt he could upset Duran in similar fashion to another defensive UK fighter in Laing.

Thoughts on Herol?
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Old 07-12-2008, 05:02 PM   #2
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

He wasn't avoided at all by them.i doubt they even really knew anything significant about him.

When he was light middle number one contender, he was an up and coming fighter who had fought no world class fighters.he wouldn't even have been on Hearns radar, with the only reason the fight would ever have got made being if Tommy opted to make a mandatory.

he was a worthy challenger and top contender for HAgler in 86, but again just a victim of bad timing.Marvin had been challenged by Leonard and was negotiating that fight, while graham and the other two top ranked fighters had to sit and wait.

Then he got whipped by Kalambay and it was all downhill from there.

Graham was probably avoided to an extent by other contenders on the way up.Not by the established greats.
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Old 07-12-2008, 05:39 PM   #3
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

The other thing that didn't help Herol is that he couldn't draw flies to shit.
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:28 PM   #4
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

Quote:
Originally Posted by biglads
The other thing that didn't help Herol is that he couldn't draw flies to shit.
And Kalambay could?

He still got a shot at one of best in the world around that time in Nunn, who WAS drawing people in.
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:29 PM   #5
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

he could of beat hagler in 86 and 87
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
And Kalambay could?

He still got a shot at one of best in the world around that time in Nunn, who WAS drawing people in.
I think that Kalambay could draw in Italy, plus once he had a decision over McCallum, other fighters wanted to fight him to prove something.

Graham on the other hand never drew a great crowd at home. His 'Run & Gun' southpaw style didn't appeal and he was viewed unfavourably in comparison with Sibson before him, and the Benn/Eubank/Watson combo a little later in his career.

Shame because he was probably more talented than any of them.

He WAS avoided, but he never had a big fan backing giving him the acclaim to perhaps force the promoters to put him in the ring with one of the other Brits for the WBO 160 or 168 belt.

Fight fans would have given him a fair chance against any one of the three above, but would have worried he'd stink the place out and kill off British Boxings Golden Egg of the time.
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Old 07-12-2008, 08:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell
And Kalambay could?

He still got a shot at one of best in the world around that time in Nunn, who WAS drawing people in.
That was a unification fight though.Both men were in the top ten pound for pound at the time.

Graham never got to that level.
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Old 07-12-2008, 09:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

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Old 07-13-2008, 01:38 AM   #9
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

Quote:
Originally Posted by biglads
The other thing that didn't help Herol is that he couldn't draw flies to shit.
I saw him in London a few times ,Christ he used to turn me off! Skillful but negative ,never committing to punch ,he was pulling back before he even landed his jab,chin up in the air,the Ingle trademark. Benn and co gave him a miss I think but he couldn't draw crowds so there was no incentive in a match with him ,and allways the chance he would fiddle his way to a dec.
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Old 07-13-2008, 06:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

Graham was to a point avoided by Hagler. But the Marvelous one was sensible, he could rightly make more money fighting Mugabi and Leonard he did not need Graham, a fight I think Hagler wins even in 1987.

Graham was brilliant be he choose himself not to fight some fellow contenders that he could of improved his resume and his case against Hagler.
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Old 07-13-2008, 07:01 AM   #11
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

lbflb duran is twice the man of graham.. 119lbs duran started then settled in at 135-Duran is so big of a legend he is matched up against the much bigger guys.. yeah, graham without a doubt was very avoided.. viva el duran..Tony - 808
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:51 PM   #12
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

Fighters are often avoided for many reasons...

It's the old risk vs reward thing....

the factor of "looking bad" is also taken into account

Herol Graham was relitively unknown name in the US....meaning he wasn't big....so little reward.... and also very tricky (risky)....Mike McCallum described him as his most awkward opponent.... also if he is known as a spoiler (boring/defensive fighter, that makes other fighter look bad)...a bit like Winky Wright was a few years ago....his style would put many fighters off.... and he was hardly a crowd pleaser...


I personally love watching fighters like Herol Graham.... To me he was a great entertainer
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE
he could of beat hagler in 86 and 87
As someone who followed Herol's career pretty closely, I don't think he could have beaten the Hagler who fought Leonard. I think Nunn would have had a good shot at it, but Herol wasn't quick enough or strong enough. Although he was amazingly elusive, he didn't have blinding speed. He also tended to poke out his punches at times and stick his chin in the air when coming forward (a particular trait of Brendan Ingle fighters) - this led to problems against Kalambay, Mac and of course Jackson. I think even a past it Marv would have tracked him down mid to late rounds.
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:10 AM   #14
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redondo5
Fighters are often avoided for many reasons...

It's the old risk vs reward thing....

the factor of "looking bad" is also taken into account

Herol Graham was relitively unknown name in the US....meaning he wasn't big....so little reward.... and also very tricky (risky)....Mike McCallum described him as his most awkward opponent.... also if he is known as a spoiler (boring/defensive fighter, that makes other fighter look bad)...a bit like Winky Wright was a few years ago....his style would put many fighters off.... and he was hardly a crowd pleaser...


I personally love watching fighters like Herol Graham.... To me he was a great entertainer
I'm cutting my grass today ,you are welcome to watch,if the excitement won't be too much for you that is.When Graham fought in London ,you could often hear the old chestnuts shouted out by the crowd,"turn off the lights ,I want to sleep".Or "don't do that I'm trying to read",he bored the shit out of me and most of Wembley on several occasions,still each to their own I suppose.
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:46 AM   #15
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Default Re: Herol Graham - How Avoided?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave's Top Ten
As someone who followed Herol's career pretty closely, I don't think he could have beaten the Hagler who fought Leonard. I think Nunn would have had a good shot at it, but Herol wasn't quick enough or strong enough. Although he was amazingly elusive, he didn't have blinding speed. He also tended to poke out his punches at times and stick his chin in the air when coming forward (a particular trait of Brendan Ingle fighters) - this led to problems against Kalambay, Mac and of course Jackson. I think even a past it Marv would have tracked him down mid to late rounds.
i dont know about that. hagler couldnt hunt down a tiring, inactive weltweight in leonard in 1987
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