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Old 07-17-2008, 09:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by Wealthy Elite
Hearns was the best head to head of the lot of them. A pair of robberies against sugar ray that should have gone his way too.
There can be a case for their return bout being a robbery, but Leonard legitimately stopped him in their first fight. Explain?
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:41 PM   #17
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Bullshit stoppage.


People really don't like Sugar Ray Leonard on ESB.
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:45 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by Wealthy Elite
you never stop a fight in which the guy getting knocked down was previously beating the everliving shit out of the other one.

Just like Chavez-Taylor.
We're not comparing Chavez-Taylor to Leonard-Hearns now are we?

Hearns was not beating the shit out of anybody, Leonard wasn't hurt once in their first fight. He was getting outboxed, but Hearns was all over the place and not fighting back. The referee had little choice.
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by Wealthy Elite
Leonard had barely won a single round
I think from the moment Leonard hurt Hearns initially, he went on a run of three rounds. The judges and the commentators also agreed with me on that.

I acknowledge that Hearns was outboxing Leonard, but Ray repeatidily hurt Hearns at least 3-4 times during the bout. Referee did his job.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by selfkill
We're not comparing Chavez-Taylor to Leonard-Hearns now are we?

Hearns was not beating the shit out of anybody, Leonard wasn't hurt once in their first fight. He was getting outboxed, but Hearns was all over the place and not fighting back. The referee had little choice.
Norris was much quicker overall than Tommy and considering how Tommy outboxed him..... I can't imagine how leonard would ever catch up to him.
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Old 07-17-2008, 11:24 PM   #21
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by Wealthy Elite
Leonard had barely won a single round
He never barely won the 6th or the 13th. He pretty such took them convincingly. You love to make a fool of yourself, as usual.

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Old 07-18-2008, 12:20 PM   #22
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Norris was much quicker overall than Tommy and considering how Tommy outboxed him..... I can't imagine how leonard would ever catch up to him.
Dont worry redrooster, we saw what happened when they actually fought, norris showed his superiority.
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:58 PM   #23
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Dont worry redrooster, we saw what happened when they actually fought, norris showed his superiority.
Duran proved you can beat Leonard by crowding him and putting on relelntless pressure whilst Norris proved that if you have the speed, Ray is even more helpless. Terry beat him every which way and the population is telling me I'm nuts. They're nuts.

You don't need to be some great legend to even beat him. Hurt him and he's yours. If you plan to go the full route and beat him on points the way Norris intended, it requires youth, backbone, initiative, the ability to move on your feet, some decent speed and you don't have to worry about the judges. Terry Norris had these qualities in abundance.

I loved the way Terry handled the stare down, forcing Ray to look down so he wouldn't become psyched out by Terry. He was owned even at the weigh in. I told everyone Ray can't handle speed he can't handle youth. He feels threatened by anyone having these qualities that's why he ducked Nunn and earlier, Hagler. Leonard is the kind of guy who will only continue his career if the other guy is completely out of the way.

Personally I had this fight a shutout for my man but that inept sportswriter from SI, Nack had it a four point fight to help save his boy's reputation because he knew most people didnt even see the fight so he knew he could just lie about it.
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Old 07-18-2008, 05:34 PM   #24
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

What nonsense. A mentaly immature Leonard fought the first fight with his ego instead of his head and lost a razor thin decision to an absolutly prime Duran. By the end of the fight Ray had Duran figured out, winning the lst two rounds. In the rematch Leonard toyed with Duran.

Terry Norris beat an old, inactive Leonard who had no business being in the ring with him. A prime Leonard would have flattened he china chinned Norris ..

The first Leonard/Hearns fight was a bad stoppage? You must be joking. Hearns was getting pounded, offered no resistance and was out his feet. Did you want a Griffith/Paret result? Is that decisive?

The rematch should have been a draw, no big win for Tommy who again was hanging on for his life at the bell. If it was a fifteen round fight instaed of a 12 Ray would have knocked him out again.
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:13 AM   #25
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by Wealthy Elite
Hearns was the best head to head of the lot of them. A pair of robberies against sugar ray that should have gone his way too.
Is refusing to recognize Leonard's achievments a pre-requisite for being a troll at this forum?
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Old 07-19-2008, 08:35 AM   #26
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

The fight should have been stopped the round before imo, the thrteenth, when Tommy went through the ropes, but the actual stoppage wasnt the most satisfying, although i cant argue with it.
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Old 07-19-2008, 11:50 AM   #27
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

1. Duran. Best p4p,and best victory of the lot in beating 147 prime leonard 12 pounds above his best weight.
2/3 joint. Leonard & Hearns. Ray,brilliant all round,beat all three as well. Hearns great in all fights,destroyed roberto and cuevas,outboxed leonard.
4. Hagler. A notch below the others p4p,but great 160 champ.
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:08 PM   #28
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by enquirer
1. Duran. Best p4p,and best victory of the lot in beating 147 prime leonard 12 pounds above his best weight.
2/3 joint. Leonard & Hearns. Ray,brilliant all round,beat all three as well. Hearns great in all fights,destroyed roberto and cuevas,outboxed leonard.
4. Hagler. A notch below the others p4p,but great 160 champ.
Sounds very reasonable. Personally, I'm not too fond of Duran, but he was great and is deserving of the highest p4p rating of the four. I think that Leonard's win over Hagler is comparable to Duran's over Leonard, though.

A case might also be made to have Hearns ahead of Leonard.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:50 PM   #29
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

The more i look at it the leonard win over hagler is superb and comparable with the duran win over leonard. I consider it the greatest comeback of any fighter,beating an atg reigning champ with one fight in five years and 13 pounds above leonards best weight. Despite all the hulabaloo and nonsense written about the bigger ring,12 round distance,thumbless gloves,hagler slowing down etc,bottom line is an inactive atg welter beat an atg middleweight by superior speed,lateral movement and smarts. I think their 87 fight shows that ray would have beat hagler even better in a prime for prime matchup over 15,rays speed and smarts are always too much for the great hagler.
Having said all that,the durans win over leonard is in my opinion THE greatest win in boxing history,leonard was prime,duran was 12 pounds over his best weight and conclusively beat top two all time welter ray in an inarguable clear manner....Also i feel the duran of that night would be a match for any welter in history,not so leonard at 160...

I put hearns and duran top in terms of talent,hearns could just destroy great fighters,a very rare skill shared with peak tyson and few others,but rays all round wins make sure he doesnt slip below hearns in rankings....
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Old 07-19-2008, 05:56 PM   #30
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

1. Roberto Duran
2. Sugar Ray Leonard
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Thomas Hearns
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