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Old 08-07-2008, 10:38 PM   #46
Stonehands89
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by GCOKIE
Yeah lets rate Duran solely on this and completely forget about all his other achievments ****en idiot.
This blockhead ^ has three posts in the Classic forum. In two he calls someone a "****en idiot". In one he calls someone a "dumbass".

He doesn't know where he is. He doesn't understand that Classic posters have more than three brain cells in working order.

Gcokie, sling your excrement at the general forum or the lounge.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:39 PM   #47
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by SorceryatCaesar
Leonard's got to be No. 1 - he won the tournament final.
Hagler no. 2.
Hearns no. 3
Duran no. 4 The reason Duran is last is 'No Mas' - a badge of shame that permanently taints his legacy.
Sorcery, I'd be curious to see your top 10 P4P list.
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Old 08-07-2008, 10:43 PM   #48
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Sorcery, I'd be curious to see your top 10 P4P list.
Stonehands. I think he's ranking them in terms of H2H in fights against each other. As you and me know it's ranking them 'pound for pound'
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:40 PM   #49
Stonehands89
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Stonehands. I think he's ranking them in terms of H2H in fights against each other. As you and me know it's ranking them 'pound for pound'
I realize that he was ranking them in terms of the tournament. He has obviously studied at least the period of boxing around 87 and must be well-read with two ATGs in Hagler and Leonard. I'd be curious to see where he stands in terms of the best of the best.
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:49 PM   #50
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

The H2H is an easy call. P4P I have (primary reasons in brackets)

Duran (long reign at 135 and won titles at higher weight when past his prime)
Leonard (level of opposition)
Hagler (long reign at 160, title opposition patchy)
Hearns (great career, multiple titles but ultimately lost his two biggest fights)

With Hearns I think its impossible to not let his performance in the 'tournament' affect his P4P ranking within the 4 fighters whereas Duran kind of gets a bit of a 'freebie' for being out of is natural weight and past his prime.

Just my 2p...

Last edited by GazOC; 08-08-2008 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:47 PM   #51
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89
I realize that he was ranking them in terms of the tournament. He has obviously studied at least the period of boxing around 87 and must be well-read with two ATGs in Hagler and Leonard. I'd be curious to see where he stands in terms of the best of the best.
The obvious comparison and easy decision I make is when comparing Hagler with Duran 'pound for pound'. Basically because they both had similar reigns when in their primes. Roughly the same amount of defenses and length of time. Just over 7 years each and only one title defense seperates them in favour of Hagler. Probably the edge goes to Hagler when it comes to quality of oppostition during his middleweight reign and he was also undisupted for all his successful defenses. IMO if Duran had retired after the third De Jesus fight he would still be considered among the greatest lightweights of all time. But his achievements at higher weights when past his prime just make his lightweight days look even better. It would be interesting to see how people would look at Duran if he only had his lightweight era on his record.

But with all that said, Duran easily ranks above Hagler 'pound for pound' Not even close IMO. He's simply got better credentials than Hagler. Obviously Duran's consistency wasn't great after 'no mas' but he was well and truely up against it when sharing the ring with Hearns and Hagler. He was 19-25lbs above his natural weight. Duran beating Leonard in Montreal beats anything Hagler ever done at middleweight.
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:18 PM   #52
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Duran beating Leonard in Montreal beats anything Hagler ever done at middleweight.
Very true.

In fact, Duran beat a peak SRL & Hagler lost to a `1 fight in 5 & a half yrs & no fights for 3 yrs SRL` tho it was MMHs last ever fight but he was still expected to beat Leonard as SRLs ring rust more than made up for Hagler`s wear & tear.
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:27 PM   #53
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

Quote:
Originally Posted by GazOC
The H2H is an easy call. P4P I have (primary reasons in brackets)

Duran (long reign at 135 and won titles at higher weight when past his prime)
Leonard (level of opposition)
Hagler (long reign at 160, title opposition patchy)
Hearns (great career, multiple titles but ultimately lost his two biggest fights)

With Hearns I think its impossible to not let his performance in the 'tournament' affect his P4P ranking within the 4 fighters whereas Duran kind of gets a bit of a 'freebie' for being out of is natural weight and past his prime.

Just my 2p...
I don't buy that. Leonard won his biggest fights.
Duran, beat Leonard, De Jesus, Buchanan, but he did lose to Hearns and Hagler and Benitez. What are his "two biggest fights"? His lightweight career, in there somewhere?
Hagler lost to Leonard, which would be his 2 biggest fights? One is Hearns, who he beat decisively.

Hearns gets a bit of a bum wrap.
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Old 08-08-2008, 03:41 PM   #54
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

Haglers two biggest fights are probably Leonard and Hearns but Hagler also had a very good reign as middleweight champ. Duran had a great Lightweight career and this offsets the loses you mentioned when past his prime and above his natural weight IMHO. For these reasons Hearns 2 loses to Hagler and Leonard harm him more than the Leonard loss does to Hagler or the Benitez/ Hagler/ Hearns loses harm Duran IMHO.

I'd listen to arguments to swap Hagler and Hearns around, favouring multiple titles over an extended reign at one weight but I think the H2H loss still hurts Hearns case. Hearns had a great career but in this company somebody has to come 4th.

EDIT: Thanks for the clarification/ edit, I wasn't clear on what points you were making in the first draft.

Last edited by GazOC; 08-08-2008 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 08-09-2008, 03:49 AM   #55
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

1. Leonard


2.Hagler
3. Hearns
4. Duran

I really like Sugar Ray Leonards style of boxing
All the best my friends
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Old 08-09-2008, 09:18 AM   #56
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

Leonard is actually last. His chin wasnt the best. He couldnt take it like Duran and Hagler and was often dropped by guys like Kevin Howard, people that weent even known to the public and Don Lalonde.

He decided to exit the sport because of Hagler and would never have fought him in his prime or close to it. You people just dont want to admit it. He has the worst record at 36-3-1. This is not the record of an all time great. He never could compete well with youthful fighters and Norris is proof of it. He should have been testing the mettle of big mouth Micheal Nunn and Mike McCallum but instead he was wasting the public's time with over the hill relics. Was his eye to blame for that too?

And whoever gave this line "Duran beating a leonard in Montreal beats anything Hagler ever did at middleweight" needs to reconsider. Beating Ray was no easy task. But when compared to what Hagler did to Hearns, the most frightening fighter on the planet and 1984's fighter of the year, a man who was peaking and had come farther in ring accomplishments than a welterweight making his second defense, then snuffing him in 3, I say Hagler's is the more impressive of the two.

You can even use hearns as the measuring stick: Duran cut for the first time, decked three times and flattened by a brutal assault and sent into retirement.

Hagler victorious in a three round street fight.

Leonard? Well he was nowhere to be found. Only real men were fighting at this time in big matches.

Based on peak quotient Hagler is #1, then Hearns, Duran, Leonard last because he wasn't around long enough
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Old 08-09-2008, 09:50 AM   #57
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Default Re: The Fab Four - Rank Them

duran
leonard
hagler
hearns

though i feel tommy was the most talented out of the list. i think he'd beat srl 6 times out of 10 at best. the stoppage in the first fight was legit though, coming from a hearns fan.
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