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Old 07-17-2008, 08:12 PM   #31
mr. magoo
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor
Absolutely.

That is perhaps the great unknown about Foreman.
I think you're taking the notion that just because Ali and Young did it, that any smaller crafty fighter could, a tad too far. Ali was the concencus greatest boxer of all time, and Young from a skills perspective, wasn't far behind. Not to mention, the latter of the two men faced Foreman during a very ill faded point in his career.

I agree that Someone like Tunney may have troubled him, due to experience, durability and quickness. But, Billy Miske, John Henry Lewis, Maxie Rosenbloom, Tommy Louhran?
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:11 PM   #32
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

I would only favor Ali, Louis and Holmes over Foreman.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:13 PM   #33
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

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Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier
I would only favor Ali, Louis and Holmes over Foreman.
These are reasonable picks. There might be a few additional guys who are worthy of a sporting chance, but I think you named the major ones.
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Old 07-17-2008, 10:57 PM   #34
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I think you're taking the notion that just because Ali and Young did it, that any smaller crafty fighter could, a tad too far. Ali was the concencus greatest boxer of all time, and Young from a skills perspective, wasn't far behind. Not to mention, the latter of the two men faced Foreman during a very ill faded point in his career.

I agree that Someone like Tunney may have troubled him, due to experience, durability and quickness. But, Billy Miske, John Henry Lewis, Maxie Rosenbloom, Tommy Louhran?
Miske if anything was as durable if not more so than Tunney.
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:38 AM   #35
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

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Originally Posted by Russell
Miske if anything was as durable if not more so than Tunney.
Perhaps, but in all fairness do you honestly think that he was a better fighter than Gene Tunney, or that he'd beat George Foreman?
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:25 AM   #36
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Marciano is about the easiest stylistic matchup for Foreman of any of the great modern HW's.

I couldnt disagree more. dempseys head sticking out wild style and fraziers predictable come forward style are way more easier for foreman to tee off on than marcianos patient slow moving low unpredictable crouch defense. out of all the swarmers, marciano has the best chance. watch the films.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:30 AM   #37
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

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I agree that Someone like Tunney may have troubled him, due to experience, durability and quickness. But, Billy Miske, John Henry Lewis, Maxie Rosenbloom, Tommy Louhran?

What 200lb + fighter did tunney ever prove himself against?

Loughran proved himself against much bigger opposition than tunney did, plus a teenager version of loughran beat gene tunney newspaper decision.


John Henry Lewis IMO was as good as gene tunney, lewis is one of the most underated of all time. John Henry Lewis was a complete fighter with a very modern style, he could do it all. archie moore rated johns henry lewis the greatest lightheavyweight of all time. Lewis also established himself against bigger heavyweight opposition than tunney faced.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:32 AM   #38
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

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Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
John Henry Lewis IMO was as good as gene tunney, lewis is one of the most underated of all time. John Henry Lewis was a complete fighter with a very modern style, he could do it all. archie moore rated johns henry lewis the greatest lightheavyweight of all time. Lewis also established himself against bigger heavyweight opposition than tunney faced.


None other than Eddie Futch had enormous, and i mean ENORMOUS wraps on John Henry.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:42 AM   #39
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
Perhaps, but in all fairness do you honestly think that he was a better fighter than Gene Tunney, or that he'd beat George Foreman?
a) I honestly think he might just have been. Of course I am in the minority on this one.

b) Obviously there are not many fighters that I would pick to beat Foreman. Billy Miske gave a prime Jack Dempsey two razor thin fights so I would not rule out that he could beat Foreman.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:47 AM   #40
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I think you're taking the notion that just because Ali and Young did it, that any smaller crafty fighter could, a tad too far.
Of course I would make Foreman a favourit over all the fighters I listed but I think there are uncertainties about how he would have fared against this type of fighter and against slick boxers generaly.

Ali as you say was Ali, and the Young and Peralta fights are inconclusive for various reasons.

Quote:
I agree that Someone like Tunney may have troubled him, due to experience, durability and quickness. But, Billy Miske, John Henry Lewis, Maxie Rosenbloom, Tommy Louhran?
I think that slick little sheisters with good chins are a nightmare for any puncher who is not of the Lennox Lewis type.

If they are standing at the final bell then you have to start counting the points and hope that you have enough of them.
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Old 07-18-2008, 10:52 AM   #41
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
I couldnt disagree more. dempseys head sticking out wild style and fraziers predictable come forward style are way more easier for foreman to tee off on than marcianos patient slow moving low unpredictable crouch defense. out of all the swarmers, marciano has the best chance. watch the films.
Well i think if we consider attributes, then i'd rather put money on Marciano than on Dempsey because his chin and stamina in my opinion are better than Dempsey's.

However, purely looking at styles, Marciano is a slow starter compared to Dempsey, and we all know how that can cost you dearly against Foreman. So in that sense, pur stylewise, i would say Dempsey matches up better with Foreman than Marciano. Same thing goes for Tyson (fast starter) and Frazier (slow starter).

Of course Marciano also carries more one-punch power than either Dempsey or Frazier, and he has plenty of early round knockouts. But again, i'm just talking about styles here.
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Old 07-18-2008, 11:32 AM   #42
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

You've got to be crafty and durable, good defence, good stamina... Or you can get in there, punch more efficiently and get to him early. the second option is much harder to pull off...
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Old 07-18-2008, 12:18 PM   #43
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

Foreman-Tyson would be 50/50 in my eyes. Larry Holmes is the one that would outbox him.
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:12 PM   #44
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

Holmes would outbox him for a short time. Foreman would take him out
within a few rounds. If Holmes could somehow get past six, which I doubt, he would have a chance.

Tyson would not withstand the bully Foreman.
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Old 07-18-2008, 04:55 PM   #45
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Default Re: Who beats a prime George Foreman ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by clark
Holmes would outbox him for a short time. Foreman would take him out
within a few rounds. If Holmes could somehow get past six, which I doubt, he would have a chance.

Tyson would not withstand the bully Foreman.
I've always felt that Larry Holmes would have beaten George Foreman anytime from 1977 until thier careers were over.

Tyson would have battered Foreman at his best.
- Better Chin
- Better Defense
- Better Stamina
- Equal Power (Edge to Tyson as the better composite puncher)
- Better Speed

Foreman would make it about as competitive but would be otherwise ineffective save for the occasional bomb that lands.
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