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Old 07-24-2007, 03:35 PM   #16
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew101
In a word...YES.

Consider that despite his limitations, and his none-too-stellar handspeed that he was able to score some impressive stoppages against the likes of Young, Ellis, Roy Williams, and Ken Norton. Also, consider that he was in the top 5 for an extended period of time in an era that's considered one of the strongest in history. Hell, even in some of his more high profile losses, he had his opponents in a lot of trouble.

There was a reason for that, and that reason could simply be boiled down to two words..."punching power".
Excellent post - I agree. I will add my own opinion that Shavers was a better puncher than Foreman because his straight right was, well uh, straight - whereas George's arm punches were loopy (still powerful - btu did he ever hit Ali as hard as Shavers? no). Shavers had better technique.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:53 PM   #17
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

He had great power but was not a good puncher in that he didn't have a great delivery system.
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Old 07-24-2007, 03:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

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Originally Posted by cross_trainer
Foreman managed, despite extreme crudeness and none-too-blazing speed. Of course, it is plausible that Shavers hit just as hard but had trouble landing, but there isn't much proof in his record--or at least, proof that a good-but-not-great puncher couldn't also produce against a low level of opposition.
Who did Foreman KO that was better than anyone Shavers KO'd, except Frazier (who Shavers could arguably have stopped under the same circumstances)? The best boxers Foreman fought (Holyfield and Ali) weren't even staggered by him. Both Foreman and Shavers have limited KO credentials against top opposition; then again, is that such a reliable way to judge power?
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:16 PM   #19
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

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Originally Posted by LogDog69
I met Shavers 7 years ago at a Church function in Magnolia, AR. The preacher there was from Shaver's home town in Alabama and he invited him to his church. While we were there one of my friends raised his hand up and asked Ernie to punch his hand as hard as he could, it took a while but he talked Ernie into it and he did it. About 2 minutes later, no bullshit, his hand was solid purple and damn near twice the size of his other hand. Plus if you don't believe that then I have read where Holmes said that Shavers punched like something from another planet and Holmes has been punched by a lot of good punchers like Tyson, Cooney, Holyfield, and Norton.
I met Shavers years ago, too, LD, at Ali's old gym on Main Street in Santa Monica. I'm not exaggerating, when we shook hands, if I didn't dig my toes into the floor, he'd have lifted me off the ground...and he wasn't trying to show off.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:43 PM   #20
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

Yes, Earnie Shavers really hit THAT hard !

I actually think he was a better puncher than Foreman.
Foreman used his size and strength more, and had a prodding jab at times, and took a punch better, but I believe Shavers was a far more explosive puncher and some of his boxing repetoire was actually far superior to Foreman's.
Shavers could be hurt easier, and wasn't as large.

The fact that Shavers' reputation as a hard puncher is NOT based on a single instance or several KOs over "big name" opponents, and is actually based on seemingly hundreds of independent testimonies and eyewitness anecdotes, actually lends weight to the truth of his power.

Shavers wasn't so brilliant as to be a winner over many top names, but many top guys he hit (cleanly or not-so-cleanly) remarked on his out-of-this-world power.
In every fight I've seen of him he looks at worst heavy-handed, and at best devastatingly explosive.
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:45 PM   #21
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

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Originally Posted by The Kurgan
Who did Foreman KO that was better than anyone Shavers KO'd, except Frazier (who Shavers could arguably have stopped under the same circumstances)? The best boxers Foreman fought (Holyfield and Ali) weren't even staggered by him. Both Foreman and Shavers have limited KO credentials against top opposition; then again, is that such a reliable way to judge power?
Hmm...

Well, Shavers has:

(green) Jimmy Young
(old) Jimmy Ellis
Ken Norton

Whereas Foreman managed:

Joe Frazier
Ken Norton
Ron Lyle
(oldish) George Chuvalo (TKO, but Chuvalo was clearly hurt in any event)
Michael Moorer
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Old 07-24-2007, 04:53 PM   #22
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

I was ringside in MSG when Shavers hit Ellis with an uppercut in the first round. He dropped like wet laundry.
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:25 PM   #23
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

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Originally Posted by cross_trainer
Hmm...

Well, Shavers has:

(green) Jimmy Young
(old) Jimmy Ellis
Ken Norton

Whereas Foreman managed:

Joe Frazier
Ken Norton
Ron Lyle
(oldish) George Chuvalo (TKO, but Chuvalo was clearly hurt in any event)
Michael Moorer
If you hear it from one common oponent you treat it with caution.

If you hear it from three or four common oponents then you have to think that there might be something in it.

If Shavers oponents had any idea how hard he hit them then he must have been one of the bigest punchers of all time.
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:30 PM   #24
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

"Foreman could punch about the same as Lyle." "He (Shavers) was the hardest hitting human being I ever met. He hit harder than Foreman and Lyle combined." -Leroy Caldwell

"Earnie Shavers hit me so hard my kinfolks felt it in Africa" -Muhammad Ali


Is there anybody who remembers being hit by Shavers who did NOT say Earnie was the hardest puncher they ever fought?

How many of Mike Tyson's opponents have said he was the hardest hitter they ever fought? The impression I get from accounts of Tyson's opponents is that fans credit him with the most absurdly overrated punching power in HW history. (It seems as though Tyson's fans are perpetrating the myth of his power more than any of his opponents are. But with Shavers, the consensus among fellow competitors seems to be virtually unanimous.)


Concerning Earnie's kayo record, it needs to be remembered that Joe Louis put together much better combinations, and that Tyson and Dempsey were much faster, while Baer had a steel chin. Foreman had enormous size, physical strength, and could take a punch. But Earnie had to do it all with his power.

When Holmes states in no uncertain terms that Earnie Shavers was a much harder puncher than Mike Tyson, keep in mind that common opponents of Shavers, like Ali and Caldwell, do support Larry's contention about the supremacy of Earnie's power.
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Old 07-24-2007, 05:44 PM   #25
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

Quote:
Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

No.
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:19 PM   #26
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

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Originally Posted by cross_trainer
I tend to wonder, given his low stoppage record against non-journeyman opposition.
Well,

His best wins were arguably against Joe Bugner, Jimmy Ellis, Ken Norton and Roy Williams, none of whom were journeyman, and all of whom were knocked out somewhat early. In addition, he had a career total of 68 knockouts in 74 wins, and the testimonies of Larry Holmes and Muhammad Ali ( two of the most durable champions in history, ) claiming that he had the hardest punch they'd ever felt.
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:24 PM   #27
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

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Originally Posted by KTFO
No.
Obviously you've taken his best to give such an adamant reply.

You must have an incredible chin....
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:40 PM   #28
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
Well,

His best wins were arguably against Joe Bugner, Jimmy Ellis, Ken Norton and Roy Williams, none of whom were journeyman, and all of whom were knocked out somewhat early. In addition, he had a career total of 68 knockouts in 74 wins, and the testimonies of Larry Holmes and Muhammad Ali ( two of the most durable champions in history, ) claiming that he had the hardest punch they'd ever felt.
A good point, although Roy Williams was not a contender on the level of Norton or even an old Jimmy Ellis.

The testimony of the three guys he hit is probably the best evidence. My point is simply that many of his knockouts come against low-tier opposition, and that similar KO records have been built recently by guys that I would never class in the same category as the true top punchers of the sport.

There is no doubt that Shavers hit extremely hard, but it seems that "hardest puncher ever" is a bit of a stretch considering the other candidates.
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:47 PM   #29
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cross_trainer
A good point, although Roy Williams was not a contender on the level of Norton or even an old Jimmy Ellis.

The testimony of the three guys he hit is probably the best evidence. My point is simply that many of his knockouts come against low-tier opposition, and that similar KO records have been built recently by guys that I would never class in the same category as the true top punchers of the sport.

There is no doubt that Shavers hit extremely hard, but it seems that "hardest puncher ever" is a bit of a stretch considering the other candidates.
Fair enough,

I was never quite certain myself as to weather or not Earnie was #1. Frankly, I've always kind of leaned towards the notion that the hardest hitter of all time was a title that didn't necessarily have to go to one man. While Shaver's right was certainly deadly, Fighters like Frazier, Morrison and Ruddock had wicked lefts. Meanwhile, you had guys like Liston, Foreman, and Tyson, who could hit hard with both hands. You also, had guys who's power was more like a heavy sand bag taking the wind out of you, while others were like getting hit over the head with a sledge hammer. Different feeling.
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:15 PM   #30
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Default Re: Did Shavers really hit THAT hard?

Look at Shaver's records and all of the pure KO's he has.

I don't think I've ever seen so many KO's one after another on any boxers record. The man left almost everyone he ever faced cold. Barely a TKO on his record.
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