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Old 06-21-2007, 05:49 AM   #61
ChrisPontius
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. magoo
Tyson was gone for most of the early 90's, and was basically done by the time he came back. Holyfield was past it by 1995 as well. Bowe never did much, and retired around 1997, after being manhandled twice by Golata.. The Klitschko bros. feasted on the dying remains of the 80's and 90's, and were beaten by a 38 year old Lewis, a 38 year old Sanders, Journeyman Ross Purity, Lamon Brewster and Chris Byrd.


When most people refer to the 90's as being a great era for the heavyweight division, they typically are illuding to the early to mid 90's. This period started around 1988, and ran until maybe 1993. Tyson was gone, and would never be himself again. Foreman and Holmes had both seen the best of their comeback days. Holyfield was past it. Lewis was getting beaten by Mccall. Bowe was good in the Holyfield trilogy, but failed to do anything else there after.
Okay, so you think the period 1977-1985 was more interesting than any 8 year period of the 90's for heavyweight boxing?

Quote:
I've explained this to you before on a multitude of occassions, as have others, yet you still chose to stick with your limited and unproven convictions. Perhaps it's you are ignoring " things"......
What is there to explain?
I merely stated facts:
-Holmes rather dropped his WBC title belt than face Page.
-The other belts didn't mean **** in that time, so he dropped the ONLY belt that was worth anything.
-Instead of fighting Page, he fought fighters that were a joke.
-He was gifted the IBF belt which meant as much back then as the IBO belt does today.

Lewis also dropped a belt or two later in his career but he did it to make his legacy fights. And he already unified, something Holmes didn't do. Holmes dropped his only belt to fight a younglings who were no threat whatsover, Holmes even said this himself in his own book, but Bill1234's quote.
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Old 06-21-2007, 06:10 AM   #62
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Hey cross trainer,

I would like to bring your attention on something I noticed. You always begin interesting thread (like this one) but you never give your thought first on the subject !
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:17 AM   #63
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Norton's recent win over Young was controversial; many saw it as yet another robbery for Young. Of course, Young was a very skilled fighter so there's no shame in losing there.
The Norton-Young fight was close. Could have gone either way, but as you say, Young was good - coming off win over Foreman (and maybe Lyle) and a controversial loss to Ali.
I thought Norton nicked it against Young.
But still, this fight means more than Holyfield coming in with the Bean fight his last outing, IMO.

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I think that many would agree that Holyfield was the better win.
I'm sure many would.
I'm saying it's debatable, highly debatable. That's all.
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:24 AM   #64
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

I agree Holmes looked just as good against McCall and Mercer as Lewis did

Lewis fought Tyson 15 years past his prime and Holyfield 5 years past

his prime. Holyfield was never the same after the Bowe trilogy. People

give to much weight to his two wins against Tyson. I take both the 88 Tyson and 91 Holyfield

over a Prime Lewis
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Old 06-21-2007, 10:37 AM   #65
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Okay, so you think the period 1977-1985 was more interesting than any 8 year period of the 90's for heavyweight boxing?
No I didn't. The great era of the 90's spanned from 1988 to maybe 1994 or so. I'll agree that this was a greater era than the time frame which Holmes was champion. Keep in mind, however, that it wasn't exactly a perfect era either. Tyson was in jail for part of it. Lewis and Bowe never met. The trilogies between Lewis, Holyfield and Tyson didn't take place until later on when all three were past it.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:21 AM   #66
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Of course it wasn't the "perfect era", i never claimed that. Bowe ducking Lewis, Tyson & Ibeabuchi being ****ed up mentally, Tyson not facing Lewis and other factors prevented it from reaching its potential.

But that's not the point. The point was that you claimed, or seemed to, that the late 70's/early 80's was a better era for heavyweight boxing than the 90's. Glad we cleared it out though.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:08 PM   #67
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I'd love to see that. Personally i highly doubt it.
1. You won't see it unless a time machine is made and we go back in time and get Norton and bring him to fight Holyfield and cancle the Lewis fight.

2. Why would you "highly doubt it"? Norton is a very underrated fighter. He had great defence, he had a nice jab, only lost to the elite compotition, and IMO beat Ali 2/3 times. He packed a good punch, and he had nice body shots. His ackward defence/style would be an advantage of his too.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:14 PM   #68
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Holmes dropped his only belt to fight a younglings who were no threat whatsover, Holmes even said this himself in his own book, but Bill1234's quote.
Read the whole thing. You are only reading what you want. Larry had already signed to fight Frank and Frazier long before the WBC thing happened. He was sick and tired of King taking his money, and he was sick and tired of being treated like complete **** by everyone. Hardly anyone gave him credit. In the early 2000's he started getting his just due, but now, people like you are taking it away from him...again. You wonder why he got miserable at times, or why he did certain things. Maybe if people gave him his just due it might have happened. Or if King and politics were fair and didn't try to steal his money, or make unreasonable offers, you may have seen him fight certain people. You are taking away from his legacy and his stature because he went about it from a buisness aproach, and wasn't sucking up to all of the orginaztions or promoters.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:16 PM   #69
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Good points. I have these two absolutely neck and neck for my number 3 and 4 spots. I've always had trouble separating the pair. Lewis has the two losses but he also took on all comers. Neither is in danger of dropping to 5. Good points.
In those situations I typicaly put who IMO was the better fighter.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:19 PM   #70
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1234
2. Why would you "highly doubt it"? Norton is a very underrated fighter. He had great defence, he had a nice jab, only lost to the elite compotition, and IMO beat Ali 2/3 times. He packed a good punch, and he had nice body shots. His ackward defence/style would be an advantage of his too.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:20 PM   #71
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1234
2. Why would you "highly doubt it"? Norton is a very underrated fighter. He had great defence, he had a nice jab, only lost to the elite compotition, and IMO beat Ali 2/3 times. He packed a good punch, and he had nice body shots. His ackward defence/style would be an advantage of his too.
Deleted cos I can't read properly.
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Old 06-21-2007, 01:30 PM   #72
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Old 06-21-2007, 03:17 PM   #73
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

("Hmmmmm....time to yank some chains!")

The reason the late seventies and early to mid eighties were so moribund in the heavyweight division was because of Holmes's ridiculous superiority to the rest of the heavyweights in boxing.

The two Scott's, Frank and LeDoux, would have easily kayoed Lewis, and have achieved enshrinement in Canastota by now. In Larry's heyday, Lennox would have labored as one of his exhibition partners.

Lewis bribed Big Daddy to toss one of his championship belts in the garbage, so he could go dumpster diving for a world title of his own. (Do you really think Lennox wanted to face Bowe again, after paying off the referee to stop their Olympic match in Lewis's favor?)

Marvis Frazier would have easily outboxed Lennox from long-range, just as he did James Broad in their pro rematch. Lewis would have never been alble to win the EBU HW title with Evangelista, Zanon, or Rodriguez in the way, yet Larry didn't forfeit a single round in toying with all of them. For Lewis, confronting Cobb would have been like trying to repell a zombie from Night of the Living Dead. Ditto Ali. Lennox would have knocked out Leon Spinks's mouthpiece, then run screaming from the ring in horror. As soon as Bonecrusher Smith exposed his Moon Mullins face to Lewis, Lennox would have collapsed to the canvas, laughing for the count.

It's just too bad that Page had to bribe Holmes to pretend to avoid him. Page could have made himself a part of history by helping Larry establish the IBF, but he took the easy way out.

Conteh and ChrisPontius, I know you secretly agree with me, but I promise not to tell! (As far as calling Holmes, The Mallard, watching him fly off that car roof to leap onto Berbick leads me to believe he might answer to Daffy.)
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:47 PM   #74
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Ha ha. Good stuff squire.
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:00 PM   #75
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Lewis by far better resume.
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