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Old 06-21-2007, 03:17 PM   #76
mr. magoo
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senya13
Lewis by far better resume.
By far??? With Losses to Oliver Mccall and Hasim Rahman? Not to mention a near defeat to Ray Mercer, who hadn't won in over 2 years prior to their meeting? Additionally, with most of his best wins coming against aging or MEDIOCRE competition???

I think that by far, is extending things just a bit.

While Holmes may not exactly have had the best list of defenses, he at least stayed undefeated until two months shy of his 36th birthday, and through 48 pro fights. What's more, he defeated a wide array of young undefeated prospects on the rise, along with some of the division's best seasoned veterans. He demonstrated on a multitude of occasions that he could go 15 rounds, and take a solid punch, along with finding ways to take apart whoever he was facing, no matter what type of style they fought. Upon retiring, he would return to the ring in 1991, and looked more impressive in beating a prime Ray Mercer, than Lewis did against a shot version of him.

Lewis's resume is no better than Holmes in my opinion.

Last edited by mr. magoo; 06-21-2007 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 06-21-2007, 03:35 PM   #77
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by Bill1234
Read the whole thing. You are only reading what you want. Larry had already signed to fight Frank and Frazier long before the WBC thing happened. He was sick and tired of King taking his money, and he was sick and tired of being treated like complete shit by everyone. Hardly anyone gave him credit. In the early 2000's he started getting his just due, but now, people like you are taking it away from him...again. You wonder why he got miserable at times, or why he did certain things. Maybe if people gave him his just due it might have happened. Or if King and politics were fair and didn't try to steal his money, or make unreasonable offers, you may have seen him fight certain people. You are taking away from his legacy and his stature because he went about it from a buisness aproach, and wasn't sucking up to all of the orginaztions or promoters.
No, the fact that he failed to meet basically any legit threat from 1982 on and never rematched his close fights is what takes his legacy down.
I'm sure you have a reason for every fight he didn't make that should've happened, but that's beyond the point here.


What do you want me to do, pretend Holmes UD Thomas, Holmes TKO7 Weaver (rematch), Holmes UD Witherspoon (rematch), Holmes TKO5 Norton (rematch), Holmes UD Page, etc, just because King and politics wanted to steal all his money?

No one is pretending Bowe to be on Lewis' (pro) resume just because the fight didn't happen, when it was not Lewis' fault.

You are really stubborn. Conteh, JT and others have already pointed out several times that Holmes had no trouble fighting for Don King or him taking from both purses when it was a 14 fight Scott Frank he's fighting. How often need these things be said?
You're a Holmes fan and it is exactly your kind of behaviour which makes people dislike certain fighters. A lot of people dislike the Klitschko's because some of their fans are so delusional. So if you wanna support your man Larry then at least admit some of the things he didn't do and be fair. Everyone has their bias, but there's a difference between some bias and having your head stuck up his ass.
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:03 PM   #78
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
No, the fact that he failed to meet basically any legit threat from 1982 on and never rematched his close fights is what takes his legacy down.
I'm sure you have a reason for every fight he didn't make that should've happened, but that's beyond the point here.


What do you want me to do, pretend Holmes UD Thomas, Holmes TKO7 Weaver (rematch), Holmes UD Witherspoon (rematch), Holmes TKO5 Norton (rematch), Holmes UD Page, etc, just because King and politics wanted to steal all his money?

No one is pretending Bowe to be on Lewis' (pro) resume just because the fight didn't happen, when it was not Lewis' fault.

You are really stubborn. Conteh, JT and others have already pointed out several times that Holmes had no trouble fighting for Don King or him taking from both purses when it was a 14 fight Scott Frank he's fighting. How often need these things be said?
You're a Holmes fan and it is exactly your kind of behaviour which makes people dislike certain fighters. A lot of people dislike the Klitschko's because some of their fans are so delusional. So if you wanna support your man Larry then at least admit some of the things he didn't do and be fair. Everyone has their bias, but there's a difference between some bias and having your head stuck up his ass.
King didn't want Larry to fight Frank or Frazier. Murad Muhammad and Bob Andreoli were in charge of it. King wanted Larry to fight Page. Have you ever read Larry's book? He never liked King, but knew King had the connections to make him a lot of money and propel him into boxing. I never said it was Lewis's fault, or even mentioned that Lewis should have fought Bowe. Why would Norton get a rematch with Larry? Does getting KTFO by Shavers get you a shot at Larry? Ive admited I don't know how many times that Larry ducked Thomas. Weaver got his rematch 21 years later, and got KTFO with 1 punch. Witherspoon went on to win another title, and Page was the #1 contender for 9 months as Dr. Z has pointed out. Also, the getting stripped of the belt thing wasn't even mentioned to Larry until 1 week before the Frazier fight as I quoted from Larry's book. Larry resigned his belt because he was tired of being treated like crap. If it was from King it was Jose Sulaiman or Rogich. Larry had tons of problems with King. They had a lot of stand offs over money, even when Larry was only making $100 a fight. King tried pulling BS with Larry like when he TKO'd someone in the 3rd round of a 6 round fight, King was only gonna give Larry 1/2 the money because Larry only fought 1/2 of the fight before beating the guy. Larry had to flat out lie to King to get his money. Larry never liked King, and always had problems with him. Larry then resigned his belt, and picked up the IBF. But no matter what title he had, he was the linear champ, and thats all that matters. Its people like you who Larry got pissed at and at the end of his title reign said all of that trash about and walked around with a chip on his shoulder. People tried to kill him going into the Cooney fight, they did a drive by on his resurant, and his office is right up stairs.
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:14 PM   #79
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Those gift decisions Holmes was given on a couple of occasions are really hurting him, and his reluctance to prove he was the better man and give rematches.

Last edited by Senya13; 06-21-2007 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:16 PM   #80
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill1234
King didn't want Larry to fight Frank or Frazier. Murad Muhammad and Bob Andreoli were in charge of it. King wanted Larry to fight Page. Have you ever read Larry's book? He never liked King, but knew King had the connections to make him a lot of money and propel him into boxing. I never said it was Lewis's fault, or even mentioned that Lewis should have fought Bowe. Why would Norton get a rematch with Larry? Does getting KTFO by Shavers get you a shot at Larry? Ive admited I don't know how many times that Larry ducked Thomas. Weaver got his rematch 21 years later, and got KTFO with 1 punch. Witherspoon went on to win another title, and Page was the #1 contender for 9 months as Dr. Z has pointed out. Also, the getting stripped of the belt thing wasn't even mentioned to Larry until 1 week before the Frazier fight as I quoted from Larry's book. Larry resigned his belt because he was tired of being treated like crap. If it was from King it was Jose Sulaiman or Rogich. Larry had tons of problems with King. They had a lot of stand offs over money, even when Larry was only making $100 a fight. King tried pulling BS with Larry like when he TKO'd someone in the 3rd round of a 6 round fight, King was only gonna give Larry 1/2 the money because Larry only fought 1/2 of the fight before beating the guy. Larry had to flat out lie to King to get his money. Larry never liked King, and always had problems with him. Larry then resigned his belt, and picked up the IBF. But no matter what title he had, he was the linear champ, and thats all that matters. Its people like you who Larry got pissed at and at the end of his title reign said all of that trash about and walked around with a chip on his shoulder. People tried to kill him going into the Cooney fight, they did a drive by on his resurant, and his office is right up stairs.
There is a saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks"; it seems you're an old already.
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:47 PM   #81
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by Bill1234
Also, the getting stripped of the belt thing wasn't even mentioned to Larry until 1 week before the Frazier fight as I quoted from Larry's book.

Suilaman told Holmes he would be stripped if he fought Frazier NOT Page in JUNE OF 1983- FIVE months before the Frazier fight.
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:47 PM   #82
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
There is a saying "you can't teach an old dog new tricks"; it seems you're an old already.


He never seems to take anything in. He's a simpleton.
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Old 06-21-2007, 04:57 PM   #83
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
He never seems to take anything in. He's a simpleton.
In the slightest... Thats why i have given up arguing with him


BTW Bill where's that footage of Pep vs Saddler II you have alledgedly seen

you shouldnt make shit up, it'll come back to bite you in the arse
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Old 06-21-2007, 05:26 PM   #84
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime Frazier DID beat Pr
Lewis, barely. Neither resume is very impressive.
Who are you, Rocky Marciano? :
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Old 06-21-2007, 05:55 PM   #85
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Suilaman told Holmes he would be stripped if he fought Frazier NOT Page in JUNE OF 1983- FIVE months before the Frazier fight.
He probably thought they wouldn't do it anyway, just like they didn't strip Ali in the later stages of his career.









Not that it justifies what Holmes did, but i'm helping Bill a bit here
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:02 PM   #86
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

It certainly appears to me that Lewis faced more of his best contemporaries. Lewis also consistently faced top-rated opponnents from 1992 through to 2003 a span of 11 years. This is several years longer than Holmes run against top opponnents.
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:15 PM   #87
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

I'm shocked JohnThomas would consider rating Holmes so highly given his points about Holmes competition. Are you rating based on something aside from accomplishments?
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:21 PM   #88
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

yea
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Old 06-21-2007, 11:26 PM   #89
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

wait. try again in 15 seconds.
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Old 06-22-2007, 06:14 AM   #90
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Definetly Lewis` competition was better. He didnt fought as much green and unskilled contenders.
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