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Old 06-22-2007, 11:25 AM   #121
mr. magoo
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Quote:
had the judges given these two fights to his opponents, it would be a much more damaging thing to his career than Lewis losing to McCall and Rahman on lucky punches. Norton being just a journeyman, and an old one at that, and Witherspoon being still green and unexperienced
Oh boy,

this is precious!!! Lewis's losses to Mccall and Rahman were a result of luck?? Norton was a journeyman?

I like you Senya. You add a, shall we say......Humerous twist to the board.....
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Old 06-22-2007, 11:30 AM   #122
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

I gave you exact quote of what several Ring magazine experts thought about Norton. You presented nothing but your own agenda, that Norton was considered great long before that, which is complete BS for anyone who actually takes time to read some things that were written about Norton back in those days. Holmes having close extremelly controversial fights with old journeyman Norton and very green Witherspoon and then losing to light heavyweight champ two fights in a row and then getting completely destroyed by Tyson, it was more disgraceful than being caught by single punches you didn't expect.
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Old 06-22-2007, 11:50 AM   #123
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Senya13]I gave you exact quote of what several Ring magazine experts thought about Norton. You presented nothing but your own agenda, that Norton was considered great long before that, which is complete BS for anyone who actually takes time to read some things that were written about Norton back in those days.
If Norton wasn't great, then how come he battled Ali through three highly promoted super fights, challenged Foreman for the world title, and was awarded the WBC belt in 1978? Sure, he was a bum all right..
Yesterday you called him mediocre. Today he's a journeman. I suppose tommarrow you'll call him a tomato can, and do it on the basis that some expert in the past called him such, but with no cited source to back it.

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Holmes having close extremelly controversial fights with old journeyman Norton and very green Witherspoon and then losing to light heavyweight champ two fights in a row and then getting completely destroyed by Tyson, it was more disgraceful than being caught by single punches you didn't expect.
There's more nonsense in this paragraph than I've seen on this forum in months. Once again, Norton was no Journeyman. In 1978, he was viewed by many sports writers and experts as quite possibly the best heavyweight in the division. Tim Witherspoon was 25 years old, and coming off of wins over contender Renaldo Snipes, as well as unbeaten prospects Alfonso Ratliff and Marvin Stinson. He would soon become a world champion within a year following the Holmes fight. Holmes was 2 months shy of his 36th birthday against Spinks in the first fight. In the rematch, he was nearly 37, and arguably kicked Spink's ass. Against Tyson, he was 38 years old, and hadn't fought in 2 years, facing what many considered to be an invincible Tyson at the time. I hardly think that this was a more disgraceful loss, then was Lewis's defeat in the prime of his career to an unknown named Mccall.

That's about all the time I'm willing to spend on your stupidity.

Last edited by mr. magoo; 06-22-2007 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 06-22-2007, 11:50 AM   #124
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by Senya13
Holmes-Norton.
New York News - 10-5 Norton

Jesus. That's the most hideous scorecard i've ever seen. 10-5 Holmes would be far more accurate (I had it 9-6 Larry).
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Old 06-22-2007, 11:52 AM   #125
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by Bill1234
Did you or did you not read what I quoted?

Yes. Why? He was 'reminded' a week before the Frazier fight, he already knew.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:10 PM   #126
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
If Norton wasn't great, then how come he battled Ali through three highly promoted super fights, challenged Foreman for the world title, and was awarded the WBC belt in 1978?
How did Leon Spinks got a shot, beat Ali, lost in rematch, got destroyed by Coetzee, and got another shot at Holmes soon after? That time period was very bad for heavyweights, that's why.
Read what was written about Norton prior to his fights with Ali and after them, read how Foreman with an injured knee was installed as 4-1 favorite and annihilated Norton, what was written about Norton after that?

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In 1978, he was viewed by many sports writers and experts as quite possibly the best heavyweight in the division.
Give exact names or sources.

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Tim Witherspoon was 25 years old, and coming off of wins over contender Renaldo Snipes, as well as unbeaten prospects Alfonso Ratliff and Marvin Stinson.
He only had 15 fights under his belt and didn't have a single fight scheduled for 12 rounds prior to that. Pretty much everyone agrees he was green coming into that fight, you want to claim otherwise?

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Holmes was 2 months shy of his 36th birthday against Spinks in the first fight. In the rematch, he was nearly 37, and arguably kicked Spink's ass. Against Tyson, he was 38 years old, and hadn't fought in 2 years.
Spinks was a light heavyweight who didn't have a single true (early fights where he weighed a couple of pounds above 175lb limit don't count) heavyweight fight. Holmes promised to destroy him, instead he blew both chances. The way he fought Tyson, several fighters prior to that showed much better boxing against Mike, than the silly tactics Holmes had chosen for that night.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:11 PM   #127
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

I'm going to say something bluntly at the risk of my own banning. The moderators on this board are far too tolerant of trolling, especially as of late. There is at least one author who is currently posting on this very thread, that I feel would be a good candidate for a ban....
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:13 PM   #128
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by mr. magoo
I'm going to say something bluntly at the risk of my own banning. The moderators on this board are far too tolerant of trolling, especially as of late. There is at least one author who is currently posting on this very thread, that I feel would be a good candidate for a ban....

Yeah, get rid of Bill1234.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:14 PM   #129
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Ronald Biggs couldn't have made Larry the winner in the first Spinks fight. It's all good tho,tis good to know where credible posts lay.

Ha ha, Ronny had it a draw.
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:16 PM   #130
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Guess who's been insulting an opponent many times and concentrating more on his mental qualities than on subject that was being debated?
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Old 06-22-2007, 12:21 PM   #131
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by Senya13
Guess who's been insulting an opponent many times and concentrating more on his mental qualities than on subject that was being debated?
Guess who's only debate tactic is to call fighters and their opponents mediocre, when ever he's getting his arse kicked in an argument?
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:03 PM   #132
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

Guess who's using contemporary sources to quote opinions about fighters, instead of just speaking his own opinion heavily affected by historical revisionism?
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:11 PM   #133
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by Senya13
Guess who's using contemporary sources to quote opinions about fighters, instead of just speaking his own opinion heavily affected by historical revisionism?
Uhhhhh, would it be the same individual who never produces any such sources, and who's opinions are highly in contrast to the bulk of society?
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Old 06-22-2007, 01:20 PM   #134
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

You want me to scan that page with Ring's ratings of the worst champions of all time to belive it?
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Old 06-22-2007, 02:10 PM   #135
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Default Re: Greater Resume: Lewis or Holmes?

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Originally Posted by Senya13
You want me to scan that page with Ring's ratings of the worst champions of all time to belive it?
You already showed that page, and It's still only one perspective. Also, just because Norton was rated as a lesser champion, doesn't mean he was a mediocre fighter overall. Remember, his reign was short lived, and between the eras of two of history's greatest champions.
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