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View Poll Results: Holmes or Lewis?
Holmes, by decision 47 49.47%
Holmes, by KO 6 6.32%
Lewis, by decision 28 29.47%
Lewis, by KO 14 14.74%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2008, 09:46 AM   #61
JohnThomas1
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Haha! Are you trying to stirr the pot here?


Please list for me the one lightning fast boxer with a killer jab, exceptional stamina, great overall skills and a tremendous chin and heart that Holmes defeated? Answer, none. How many of does did Ali defeat? Answer, none. How many of those did Louis defeat? Answer, none.


To say that Holmes (or anyone, for that matter) beats Lewis easily is just plain stupid. Holmes at his peak barely got by an old, glass chinned Norton and basically struggled with every good opponent he had while declining to give well-earned rematches (Norton, Witherspoon, Weaver & Williams).
Thanks mate. I've been walking around twitching and trying not to respond to this shit for hours

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Old 07-26-2008, 09:47 AM   #62
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

Lewis has never faced what Holmes brings to the table yada yada yada but of course Holmes was ironing out Lewis clones or better every second defense
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Old 07-26-2008, 09:53 AM   #63
he grant
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

You wouldn't be slightly partial mate now would you ..

I repeat my question. Once you get done patting each other on the back, why not try and answer it ? Nothng is weaker on any boxing board than guys that rip insults instead of backing up their opinions with facts. You can have 20,000 posts but it still defines you as an amateur. In addition, so boring to boot.

By the way, you must think little of Ali who could not take out the glass chinned Norton in 39 rounds. Does Ali get beat by Lennox as well?
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:03 AM   #64
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

Quote:
Originally Posted by he grant
You wouldn't be slightly partial mate now would you ..
You wouldn't border on being a hater would you mate?

Yes, hater in da house.

Quote:
I repeat my question. Once you get done patting each other on the back, why not try and answer it ? Nothng is weaker on any boxing board than guys that rip insults instead of backing up their opinions with facts. You can have 20,000 posts but it still defines you as an amateur. In addition, so boring to boot.
"Holmes easy" you say. What a crock. Two greats of this level and you pick an easy fight. OMG. This is a Holmes who often didn't win easy at all, and against opposition WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY below the level of Lewis. To say the least. What a ridiculous prediction.

I'll leave the rest to Chris, i am sure he has some decent material to come back with

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Old 07-26-2008, 10:17 AM   #65
he grant
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

So JT proves he has no answer to the direct question. AS far as a hater goes, look in the mirror and read who started what.
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:28 AM   #66
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

Quote:
Originally Posted by he grant
So JT proves he has no answer to the direct question. AS far as a hater goes, look in the mirror and read who started what.
Whilst others have looked at the merits of both fighters (Bill, tho a HUGE HUGE Holmes fan at least gives Lewis a decent hearing on his merits) and given speculation per this you have just looked at one side. Surprise, surprise, surprise. Lewis had his struggles as did Holmes. Holyfield was still better than anyone Holmes ever actually defeated most will agree.

You have little balance in this particular debate whatsoever sorry.
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:39 AM   #67
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

I feel this fight would be a Bad matchup for Holmes. He did not have the devastating power to take Lennox out of there and Lennox had the BIG right hand not to mention a very good jab. Holmes would give Lennox something to think about with his jab and movement early but the right hand of Lennox would catch and rattle Holmes....tko 9 Lennox
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:52 AM   #68
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

Quote:
Originally Posted by he grant
You wouldn't be slightly partial mate now would you ..

I repeat my question. Once you get done patting each other on the back, why not try and answer it ? Nothng is weaker on any boxing board than guys that rip insults instead of backing up their opinions with facts. You can have 20,000 posts but it still defines you as an amateur. In addition, so boring to boot.
I can't blame you for not knowing, but as far as i know, JohnThomas thinks very highly of Holmes, as do i. But that doesn't mean that Holmes would get an easy walkover against Lewis, especially since he doesn't have big punching power, a vital element in beating Lennox.


As for answering the question.... how many lightning fast boxers with a killer jab, exceptional stamina, great overall skills and a tremendous chin and heart did Lewis defeat?
None! What a bum!


Now i have a question for you.

How many heavyweights in the entire history of gloved boxing defeated a " lightning fast boxer with a killer jab, exceptional stamina, great overall skills and a tremendous chin and heart" in his prime?


Surely you can see the stupidity of this particular argument, and how it bites you in your own ass, seeing as to how Holmes (or any fighter in history) didn't beat a fighter like that either?



Quote:
Originally Posted by he grant
By the way, you must think little of Ali who could not take out the glass chinned Norton in 39 rounds. Does Ali get beat by Lennox as well?
Well, a few things to note on the Ali-Norton fights:

-Ali was past his best for the first two fights. He underestimated Norton as witnessed by the fact he was 10 pounds overweight. When he came in-shape in the rematch, he won the fight although it was close.

-For the rubber match, which i believe Norton won, Ali was not just past his best but close to washed up. He had to rely pure on heart, chin, guts and popularity to win fights at this point.

Holmes, on the other hand, was at or close to his peak, whereas Norton himself at this point was on the slide. He went something like 2-2-1 afterwards, twice being dusted in a single round, drawing and getting knocked down by LeDoux... followed by retirement.


As for me not thinking high of Ali, i rank him the #1 or #2 heavyweight of all time, depending on what constellation the sun is in at the moment.
And yes, if he didn't have his struggles with Norton, then he'd be the undisputed #1, even a step above Louis.


As for "Does Ali get beat by Lennox as well?", the fact that you ask this tells me you're either very biased or just flat-out ill informed about how boxing and styles work. Going by your other posts, i'd say it's the first.

Foreman destroyed Frazier who beat Ali, does that mean Ali gets beat by Foreman as well? I'll let you do the math.
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Old 07-26-2008, 11:00 AM   #69
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

I think Lewis knocks Larry out late, after being behind on the cards.
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Old 07-26-2008, 08:41 PM   #70
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-MAC
Battle of the jabs for me.

I'll take Holmes by close decision.
Same here

The jab wins the fight for Larry in this one.
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Old 07-26-2008, 10:40 PM   #71
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

Lummox was oft times clumsy, poorly balanced, and don't get me started on his chin. Sure, Larry beat a fat Leroy Jones, but Lennox beat plenty of fatso's too in the form of Butler, Mercer, Tua. Larry would battle hard for the entire fight and had the tools to defeat Lewis. Larry beat Witherspoon and Williams when they were a the top of there games. Lummox stopping Larry puh-lease! Larry had a great chin, only a rampaging prime Tyson could ever, and did stop Larry. Lummox was the one who couldn't continue after being sent to the canvas. Holmes wins this by clear decision or gets an exhausted Lewis outta there late with a big right hand.
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Old 07-27-2008, 05:00 AM   #72
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

Holmes by decision.

If you look at the fights were Lewis has struggled its when a fighter takes away his jab.
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:40 AM   #73
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

No Chris, instead you made my point. There have been very few heavyweights who were lightning fast boxers with killers jabs, great overall skills and possessed tremendous chins and hearts in boxing history...two to be exact. They were Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes. That's what made Holmes a very top all time great heavyweight and why Lennox Lewis was not. That plus the fact that when caught by a bomb Holmes got up while Lewis did not.

Who do you pick staight up between Holmes and Lewis?

Now to Ali. So you feel Ali at 32, past his peak but still a great fighter, who struggled with Norton but still went on to defeat Foreman, Frazier, Lyle, Bugner and Shavers and was still a hell of a fighter pre-Manila would not have had troubles with Norton pre-exile? Are you saying that the pre-exile Ali easily dominates Norton? I say that any Ali had his hands full with Norton as it was Ken's style that made him a disaster for Muhammad. What do you say?

Now to Norton. I watched his entire career so let me lay it out for you. The Norton that fought Holmes was every bit as good if not better than the Norton who fought Ali twice in 73. Norton was extremely well conditioned, Norton did not have a history of wars under his belt, Norton was not a runner like Ali who relied on leg speed as a primary weapon . Norton actually improved from 75 - 78 starting with the Quarry victory. It was the sweet spot of his career. He went on to give Ali a beating and was robbed. He destroyed Duane Bobick. He decisioned a very tough Jimmy Young. At no point during that time did anyone say he lost a step, instead like a Hopkins he defied age and matured into a better skilled, more confident fighter.

When Norton fought Holmes he was 34 but on top of his game. If you can prove differently, point out where in his performances. In addition, you seem to forget or simply don't know that Holmes fought the fight with a torn am muscle that hindered his ability to punch but refused to call off the fight. Their fight was a classic and for you to write it off as Holmes v.s. an old man shows you know little of the fight, the period or the fighters.

What happened post Holmes? First off very bad match making for him to fight Shavers. However, getting KO'ed by Shavers does not a glass chin make. Still, the Holmes fight did take it's toll, Norton's Manila of sorts while the Shavers fight destroyed his confidence and Norton did begin to slip. He then had the poor showing v.s. LeDoux and packed it in.

Net/Net the Norton who fought Holmes was still on top of his game. Holmes defeating him while injured was a terrific, gutsy performance.

Last edited by he grant; 07-27-2008 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:46 AM   #74
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

Quote:
Originally Posted by he grant
No Chris, instead you made my point. There have been very few heavyweights who were lightning fast boxers with killers jabs, great overall skills and possessed tremendous chins and hearts in boxing history...two to be exact. They were Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes. That's what made Holmes a very top all time great heavyweight and why Lennox Lewis was not.
Lewis was not? Well, he´s in nearly everybody´s Top10 and in many, if not most, Top5s. I think Chris and JT are right you are biased in here.
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Old 07-27-2008, 07:50 AM   #75
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Default Re: Larry Holmes -vs- Lennox Lewis

I find it interesting how people make comments without reading my posts. Biased how and against whom?

I happen to like Lennox and have defended him for years. I simply think that he was a hell of a fighter but not a top five all time great. I think Holmes was a top three or four all time great if not higher. I am making a case how I feel he would defeat Lewis. How is that bias?

In addition, Lennox is far from in everyone's top ten. By that did you mean of posters here?
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