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Old 07-24-2008, 04:28 PM   #61
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by eliqueiros
If Cotto, my favorite of this generation had trouble with an old Mosley, and the P4P#1 could not wipe the floor clean with a Hoya who was the same age as Chavez was against him, then there might be something to that generation being a bit better than the current.
Right but look. Mayweather never fought the best at 147. He fought Judah and Baldomir.

If you really follow the whole situation you'll see that both Spinks and Mayorga, as well as Judah were protected by King. And King kept them from other opponents until Mayweather came into the picture. That only broke up when Baldomir pulled off the upset.

Saying Mayweather was the best 147lber out there is a laugh considering he didn't fight any of the best. He fought a glorified jr.welter and a journeyman. That is a fact.

And as far as I'm concerned Cotto's close fight with Mosley is more indicative of Cotto than it is Mosley.
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:30 PM   #62
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by Ambition_Def
If DLH didn't exist at 147 would it have got as much attention as it did?
It would be all Trinidad!
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:30 PM   #63
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by BewareofDawg
Ambition loves to point out that Oscar fought smaller guys....but he's too stupid to realize that Margarito is almost always the bigger man in the ring (Williams and Cintron are big also) because he has a huge frame and could probably more comfortably fight at 154 or 160 but his style doesn't prohibit success against guys his own size.
Crock of shit. Santos, Williams, Cintron, Perez were all big guys that I can say off the top of my head. And Clottey himself isn't very small. Stocky yes, but not a jr.welter by any means.
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:31 PM   #64
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by BewareofDawg
Ambition loves to point out that Oscar fought smaller guys....but he's too stupid to realize that Margarito is almost always the bigger man in the ring (Williams and Cintron are big also) because he has a huge frame and could probably more comfortably fight at 154 or 160 but his style doesn't prohibit success against guys his own size.
I always looked at Cintron's frame and wondered how he was a welterweight. Look at his frame, his upper body, shoulders and all. He looks like a friggin middleweight!!!
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:32 PM   #65
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by Ambition_Def

And as far as I'm concerned Cotto's close fight with Mosley is more indicative of Cotto than it is Mosley.
Well you better hope to god that Cotto doesn't beat Margo, even by close decision
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:33 PM   #66
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by Ambition_Def
Crock of shit. Santos, Williams, Cintron, Perez were all big guys that I can say off the top of my head. And Clottey himself isn't very small. Stocky yes, but not a jr.welter by any means.
So Margo ISN'T a big Welter? He could definitely carry 160lbs. I've seen him next to Winky Wright and he looked bigger then him
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:34 PM   #67
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by BewareofDawg
Well you better hope to god that Cotto doesn't beat Margo, even by close decision
If Cotto does beat Margarito then it proves that the 90s era was stronger than today's era. Unless of course Cotto rematches Mosley and beats him more convincingly.

Until that happens there is no saying it is. If Margarito beats Cotto that will ultimately make Mosley look less spectacular, which would make sense considering he is fighting past his peak. And it would lend significance to the notion that this era is as deep as that era.
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:39 PM   #68
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by BewareofDawg
So Margo ISN'T a big Welter? He could definitely carry 160lbs. I've seen him next to Winky Wright and he looked bigger then him
He's a big welter. That wasn't my point. My point was that DLH spent at least half his career fighting guys much smaller than him. He fought at 135 remember. And he worked up a reputation of blasting out those natural 135lbers. When he got into the ring with top guys at his normal weight class he split hairs with them.

And of course because of his previous rep, everyone will feed off that and rank the entire era higher than following ones. DLH was never great. A good boxer but not great.
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Old 07-24-2008, 04:58 PM   #69
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by Ambition_Def
He's a big welter. That wasn't my point. My point was that DLH spent at least half his career fighting guys much smaller than him. He fought at 135 remember. And he worked up a reputation of blasting out those natural 135lbers. When he got into the ring with top guys at his normal weight class he split hairs with them.

And of course because of his previous rep, everyone will feed off that and rank the entire era higher than following ones. DLH was never great. A good boxer but not great.
Unfreakinbelieveble.

Tell Def, who from this generation is great?
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Old 07-24-2008, 05:02 PM   #70
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by eliqueiros
The majority of fans and Merchant saw it the other way.
Anyway, yeah, Hoya ****ed up the first one because he thought he lost the Trinidad fight because he didn't brawl. Other than this he had trouble with Whitaker as would anyone else, Hopkins was slick but didn't beat him in a slick way but by sheer violence, had the same trouble with Mayweather anyone else would have however I see this as a silly fight plan more than anything else, and its this fight that everyone keeps referencing to show he is slow and shot forgetting he was implementing Roach's fightplan which was silly. His fight against Forbes shows he is still plenty fast, his combinations are still great, and he can be conditioned properly by the right trainer.
the hopkins fight was less violence and more two grown men circling eachother for 9 rounds till the fix fell through the floor and the worst acting job in the history of boxing was performed
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Old 07-24-2008, 06:31 PM   #71
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

Mosleys got a real intresting style he has good footwork,hand speed and can counter punch so people think ok hes slick. However he isnt Mosley has defensive flaws especially pulling straight back and getting caught with then right hand. Also Mosley doesnt own a jab what so ever and he doesnt have the world greatest technique how many guys use a overhand right as much as Shane Mosley ?
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:54 AM   #72
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by BewareofDawg
Like Tito? Arguably the best "brawler" of our generation who Oscar fought in his prime and schooled for the first 10 rounds? Or did you mean he would be slaughtered by any brawler his own size AFTER 10 rounds??? You're unbelievable sometimes. What about Vargas? And don't even give me the shit about him being shot because the Vargas that entered that ring that night was just as strong, conditioned, quick and ferocious as any....maybe due to the steroids.
You need to learn how to score a fight, Hito. We've been through all this before. Oscar DID NOT win 10 rounds of that fight. The first was even. Oscar won rounds 2, 3, and 4. (You Oscar***ual faggots were too busy high fiving eachother and getting the champagne ready, that you didnt notice Trinidad taking 5 and 7.) Oscar also won rounds 6 and 8.

Thats 5 rounds, to 2, with one even, going into the 9th. This is BOXING. If Oscar had had any brains, and it's highly apparent that he had a lobotomy, he would have fought his heart out, 9-12, and went for the KO. But instead, the Golden bitch did what he does nest against Puerto Ricans. He runs. Had he fought hard just 1 round, of 9-12, we wouldnt be having this conversation. But instead he got on his bicycle, and Trinidad took over. Check out Lederman's card if you dont believe me. Trinidad swept 9, 10, 11, and 12, and got ahead by a single point!!! 115-114. Had Oscar fought hard in the 1st, we wouldnt be having this conversation, but he again, was terrified of the Puerto Rican left hook.

And as far as the Vargas fight? Trinidad shattered his jaw so bad, they had to transplant the mandible with that of a cadaver. You try defending the IBF Title against Oscared after jaw replacement surgery. Oscar still sends Tito thank you cards to this day.
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Old 07-25-2008, 01:59 AM   #73
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by Jack Presscot
You need to learn how to score a fight, Hito. We've been through all this before. Oscar DID NOT win 10 rounds of that fight. The first was even. Oscar won rounds 2, 3, and 4. (You Oscar***ual faggots were too busy high fiving eachother and getting the champagne ready, that you didnt notice Trinidad taking 5 and 7.) Oscar also won rounds 6 and 8.

Thats 5 rounds, to 2, with one even, going into the 9th. This is BOXING. If Oscar had had any brains, and it's highly apparent that he had a lobotomy, he would have fought his heart out, 9-12, and went for the KO. But instead, the Golden bitch did what he does nest against Puerto Ricans. He runs. Had he fought hard just 1 round, of 9-12, we wouldnt be having this conversation. But instead he got on his bicycle, and Trinidad took over. Check out Lederman's card if you dont believe me. Trinidad swept 9, 10, 11, and 12, and got ahead by a single point!!! 115-114. Had Oscar fought hard in the 1st, we wouldnt be having this conversation, but he again, was terrified of the Puerto Rican left hook.

And as far as the Vargas fight? Trinidad shattered his jaw so bad, they had to transplant the mandible with that of a cadaver. You try defending the IBF Title against Oscared after jaw replacement surgery. Oscar still sends Tito thank you cards to this day.
Why are you inciting this PR/Mex stuff? To my knowledge he fought two PRs, Molina and Trinidad. He was the one making the fight against Molina who was holding on to Hoya so he wouldn't get punched.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:12 PM   #74
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Default Re: "De La Hoya feasts on brawlers and only struggles with slick boxers"

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Originally Posted by eliqueiros
Why are you inciting this PR/Mex stuff? To my knowledge he fought two PRs, Molina and Trinidad. He was the one making the fight against Molina who was holding on to Hoya so he wouldn't get punched.
I think Rivera is Puerto Rican also.
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