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View Poll Results: What would the result be of a 15-round boxing match between SRL and Duran?
Sugar Ray Leonard by K.O. 1 2.08%
Sugar Ray Leonard by U.D. 14 29.17%
Sugar Ray Leonard by SD. 8 16.67%
Roberto Duran by K.O. 1 2.08%
Roberto Duran by U.D 19 39.58%
Roberto Duran by S.D 5 10.42%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-26-2007, 01:09 AM   #31
Street Lethal
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
You don't buy that Leonard fought the wrong fight in the first one or anything to do with that? But you make the excuse that Duran simply wasn't the same in the rematch? Seems a little hypocritical to me.
How is that hypocritical? Duran soundly beat Leonard in Montreal. In the rematch, something was obviously wrong with Duran and we learned after the fight that he was puny. The only difference between the two fights is Duran's condition. Leonard showed me nothing new in the rematch. If you want to believe that he showed you something new then I can't do anything about that. We will have to agree to disagree.

Somewhere in the rest of your post you said something about Duran having trouble with movers. Before facing Leonard Duran had a record of something like 74-1. Are you saying he never faced any movers during that time? Duran was a great boxer. I don't think he had trouble with movers.
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:54 AM   #32
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
If we would definitly know that Leonard made him quit than yes. But when we take into account that Duran shouldn´t have fought in the first place - he was not in shape for a fight with Leonard - and the mysterious stomach cramps than no :P
We really know he had stomach cramps too

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Old 07-26-2007, 04:57 AM   #33
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

This won't be much of a fair vote of course, with Rooster voting in so many alias'
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:42 AM   #34
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

When do you take Haglers peak to be, if not in 1983, 3 years and 8 defences into his reign as MW king? At the peak of physical maturity, with the growing confidence that comes with being champ.

The 3 round demolition of Hamsho (1984) and the career-defining fight against Hearns (1985) both still to come.

I think calling Hagler peak in '83 when he faced Duran is eminently reasonable, smack bang in the middle of his great reign.

Many observers noticed a definite slowing in '86 during the Mugabi fight, which took the edge off him.

By '87 he was old and a bit off, and it showed against Leonard. Which Hagler are you talking about, Sweetpea? I have no idea where you are coming from with this post...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
He was not at his peak for Duran, and he sure as hell wasn't shot against Leonard.

Duran seemed to be going into the second fight with the same strategy, but wasn't able to imply it as well with Leonard's unwillingness to cooperate, and he couldn't deal with it.
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Old 07-26-2007, 06:58 AM   #35
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

Illustrating your point about Duran struggling with movers with the Benitez fight is a little misleading.

It was Durans 79th Pro fight, 15 years into his pro career, and he was mentally in the doldrums after the 'no mas' fight.

As a point of reference, Pernell Whitaker was 15 years into his pro career in 1999 when he lost to Felix Trinidad. But i wouldnt consider it reasonable to use this as a yardstick for Pernells likely prime performance against a man with Trinidads qualities.

Play fair mate!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
He had a hard time finding them. Benitez, Bizarro, etc. Benitez being a better example in that he beat Duran(and Bizarro was pretty much just a runner).

But if Leonard didn't show you anything different in the second fight than the first you have to be blind. He fought a totally different fight, he fought his fight, and Duran couldn't cope, instead of fighting Duran's fight.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:12 AM   #36
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

Well, they are 1-1 at 147 so I will say.....

The duran of the 1st fight vs the leonard of the 2nd fight.... I think srl`s natural size advantage enables him to survive the duran attacks & get straight back to long range boxing to win a sd, it would be 1 of those gtreat clash of styles fights with no real loser, fans opinions split as to who really won but in the end the 2 judges would give it to leonard while 1 goes for duran.

Leonard SD15 Duran

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Old 07-26-2007, 09:28 AM   #37
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
He had a hard time finding them. Benitez, Bizarro, etc. Benitez being a better example in that he beat Duran(and Bizarro was pretty much just a runner).

But if Leonard didn't show you anything different in the second fight than the first you have to be blind. He fought a totally different fight, he fought his fight, and Duran couldn't cope, instead of fighting Duran's fight.
you should be shot for putting benitez and bizzarro in the same sentence. there was a reason that benitez was nicknamed radar. one of the best defensive fighters ever. srl was nowhere near that level.

many are giving srl too much credit for that second fight. find the playboy interview. he says it himself that he knew that duran would not be able to get into top condition for that fight due to his lifestyle. and the fact that he was living high. which is the reason he wanted him in the ring as soon as possible. these are facts. seeing things the way you want to see them and discounting sr's own words is disengenuous.
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Old 07-26-2007, 09:54 AM   #38
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

The Duran camp could have turned that date down, it's not as if Leonard would have refused the fight had Eleta said January 20th or something.

Last edited by Tuco; 03-28-2006 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:02 AM   #39
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by istmeno
you should be shot for putting benitez and bizzarro in the same sentence. there was a reason that benitez was nicknamed radar. one of the best defensive fighters ever. srl was nowhere near that level.

many are giving srl too much credit for that second fight. find the playboy interview. he says it himself that he knew that duran would not be able to get into top condition for that fight due to his lifestyle. and the fact that he was living high. which is the reason he wanted him in the ring as soon as possible. these are facts. seeing things the way you want to see them and discounting sr's own words is disengenuous.
Ah, but SRL was pretty elusive when he wanted to be, and I think he showed that in his second fight with Duran. Hell, he began to incorporate more movement in the later rounds of the first fight, and did enough good work to make the fight pretty close on my particular scorecard.

I don't think it's at all easy for Leonard, but I think using the proper game plan from the start, he'd do enough to win a razor-thin decision.
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Old 07-26-2007, 01:28 PM   #40
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

Leonard UD 15 Duran.Not easily, but Ray would do enough to pull it out.
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Old 07-26-2007, 01:42 PM   #41
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

I am going Leonard SD

BTW: If you add up all 6 judges scorecards through the first two fights
it's 638 for Leonard and 637 for Duran
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Old 07-26-2007, 04:46 PM   #42
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

SRL did not have the firepower necessary to hurt Duran in any of their three matches the way Roberto stunned Ray early in their first encounter. Early on in Montreal, Duran was feinting Leonard into knots. He also got Leonard to fight him flatfooted, winning a psychological battle against an opponent who didn't even speak the same language. If this is going to be a first time matchup, guess what? It's already been done.

What I wonder about is whether or not the SRL of Montreal would have even lasted 15 rounds with the Duran of DeJesus III. (That's right, even with Duran outweighed by over ten pounds. If that earlier version of Duran had stunned Leonard the way the older, heavier and slower version actually did do in Montreal, would Ray have survived?)
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Old 07-26-2007, 08:45 PM   #43
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

Duran fought great in the first fight. I'm not trying to say he didn't have anything to do with his victory in that fight.

I think that Duran is getting more credit than he deserves for the phycological advantage in that fight, and causing Leonard to fight flat footed. Leonard was constantly being questioned about his toughness before that fight. Not by Duran, but by most everyone. It is hard to picture someone who smiles like that to be a tough guy. He seemed to nice. He had the media questioning him, boxing fans questioning him, and he hadn't fought a fight without showing how well he could move at that point. No one had seen him toe to toe. What better way to prove his worth, by standing toe to toe with Duran? I don't think Duran alone influenced this, though he certainly helped.

Imagine being called a pretty boy your entire life. People saying you are a "*****", and that if you couldn't run you were dead. You know in your mind, that you are not just a pretty boy. Then along comes Mayorga...
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Old 07-26-2007, 10:08 PM   #44
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Yeah I'm sorry SRL and Benitez are nowhere near the same level, Benitez would smoke a fighter of SRL's stature. Why would I think of comparing him to Benitez?

Oh well whadaya know? Apparently they had a fight, and SRL smoked him. Looks like Benitez's amazing defense didn't do him too well in that one did it? How the hell are you gonna say they aren't in the same league. SRL had just as good movement as Benitez, Benitez was just as little slicker.
you are the one that mentioned benitez and bizzarro in the same sentence. and i stand by the statement that you should be shot for that.

my statement about srl not being on benitez leve was in reference to defensive skills. srl had good not great defense. wilfred was on a whole different plane defensively. imo one of the best of my lifetime defensively.
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Old 07-27-2007, 01:12 AM   #45
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Default Re: *~* Welterweight GOAT Tournament *~* Roberto Duran vs Sugar Ray Leonard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
It seems as if most are voting for SRL, but Duran is winning the poll, I think what someone else said about Redrooster making aliases is true.
Maybe Leonard fans are just more vocal. Maybe Duran fans feel they don't have to justify their vote. Maybe they know how passionate Leonard fans are and want to avoid the knockdown dragout. The point is that I wouldn't draw any conclusions about the way the thread is going.
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