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Old 07-23-2007, 09:50 PM   #1
Leeroy
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Default Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

My opinion has not changed. Discuss this matchup.
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:56 PM   #2
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

AGAIN?

Hopkins eaks out a horrible UD that everyone argues about for about ten years.
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Old 07-23-2007, 09:57 PM   #3
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

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Originally Posted by McGrain
AGAIN?

Hopkins eaks out a horrible UD that everyone argues about for about ten years.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

Now I want to make this perfectly clear.
The Bernard Hopkins that we see today, would not have beaten the Marvin Hagler that we all know of.

When I'm looking at this, I'm talking of the Bernard Hopkins that dismantled Tito Trinidad. That Bernard Hopkins was one of the best middleweights in the history of the game.

Marvelous Marvin Hagler and Bernard Hopkins are very much alike, they're hard men.. inside and outside of the squared circle. They both brought a very intimidating presence into the ring, and they both could fight to back up that presence.

But there is one major difference in styles that differentiates them... versatility.

Marvelous Marvin Hagler was a great fighter, but a fighter that relied on 3 things, conditioning, will, and physical strength. It was his goal to press a fight for 15 full rounds until whoever it was that was in front of him was gone. He carried this throughout his career, and he was absolutely brillaint in his work.

However, what would he do when a guy refused to stand with him, a guy that knows how to win, and that wouldn't buy into Hagler's game? Well, we all saw what he'd do, he'd keep trying. Hagler's fight with Sugar Ray Leonard set the blueprint and is the fight that I believe accurately depicts how Bernard Hopkins would have "Executed" Hagler, except in far more emphatic fashion then the much smaller Ray Leonard.

Hopkins is also, like Hagler, a HUGE middleweight. Physically powerful, and bruising. In a matchup of pure strength, this one is about as even as it gets. Many may think Hagler was stronger, but in terms of size and boxing functional strength, he was NOT.

The Hopkins at the time of the Trinidad fight would NOT have thrown a shot here and there, jumping in and out with a shot and looking to grab. He was a guy who put together punches, and found beautiful angles to land crushing shots. (His power was much more devestating a few years back, it has deteriorated with age, even Hopkins himself has admitted this) Lets not disregard the fact that Hopkins, just as Hagler was, has ALWAYS been in absolutely flawless condition.
Being as strong as Hopkins is, he would not have catered to Haglers style. He would have stuck him with a jab from the get go, letting Hagler start to bring the fight to him, and dissecting him with his overrall BETTER SKILLS and well roundedness.

Hagler was tremendous, but Hopkins just has more to work with. Hagler would be chasing Hopkins all night, but unlike the Hopkins we saw vs Eastman (a Hopkins that I like to refer to as slowing down, losing punching power, and the overall tenacity), the prime Bernard Hopkins was an absolutely murderous fighter. He would have shucked in and out (Hopkins is such a quicker fighter then the somewhat methodical Hagler) landing many series of devestating shots and leaving when any resistance was offered up from Hagler.

Certainly Hopkins would take a few shots in the bout, but with Hopkins's jaw of CAST IRON, there is absolutely no way that Hagler would have gotten to him enough to force a stoppage or even to significantly hurt Hopkins in my opinion. He would have chased him hard, he would have pressed the issue, but once Hopkins started Banging him and getting inside and mauling him, not giving Hagler any room, tapping him on the thighs, tangling him up, freeing up an arm and ripping a few uppercuts and short hooks (Hopkins is a perfectionist at this craft), he would gain control of Hagler.

Hopkins was too fast, equally strong, and had MANY MANY more options then Hagler. When Option 1 would fail for Hagler, he would have nothing else to resort to, of course The Marvelous one would try in vein, but it would be futile. Even when he beat Hearns, he had one option, go through all that punishment and do what he does best. Strength, will, and conditioning. Hopkins would NEVER get into that kind of fight with Hagler, and the result would be a hard fought Hopkins decision, potentially even stopping him late. Sugar Ray Leonard pulled it off, and he was nowhere near as strong as Hopkins, Hopkins is catlike quick, and there's no doubt in my mind he could pull off the same gimmick to perfection, except better. Just like he pulled off the gameplan set forth by Oscar De La Hoya on Felix Trinidad better.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Hagler was better in every way. Better long range, stronger in close. Better at pretty much everything. Hopkins was crafty and skilled, but not enough to take Hagler off his game.
There is something awkward about fighting Hopkins, as you've said.

I think Hagler could "out-think" himself - I think the prospect of taking on Hopkins could worry him. I also think it's possible that Hopkins could get under Hagler's skin in the ring and before they got into the ring - Hopkins is on a different plane, mentally in my opinion. I really think Hagler could find himself unseated a bit.

Of course, this suggestion makes some people go absolutley mad, so i've got to acknowledge I could be wrong, such is the depth of feeling of otherwise rational people.

But that is my opinion.

Hopkins UD, 15.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:06 PM   #6
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Hagler was better in every way. Better long range, stronger in close. Better at pretty much everything. Hopkins was crafty and skilled, but not enough to take Hagler off his game.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

I like Hagler in this one, Hopkins did not have the handspeed of a Leonard or the footspeed, Hagler UD IMO
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Hagler appeared to me to be one of the hardest men I've seen in boxing, I don't think anyone shakes him.
Firs up, i'm not suggesting Hagler is anything other than one of the hardest that's ever seen the ring; nor am I suggesting he is weak mentally (the opposite if anything). But I do think Leonard got under his skin and had him asking himself questions. I also feel that Duran unsettled him a bit.

These guys work on a higher plane of physical communication. I've always felt that Hopkins, with his time inside, has an even better understanding of these coded messages. He's got a better handle on eye-contact (basically a challenge inside) and how to control those confrontations (he's never been faced down or unerved that i've seen). I don't think Hagler would like the sense of being "edged out" psychologically, specifically because he was not used to it. It is my opinion, and i have very little in the way of proof, he suffered something similair v Duran (a blown up lightweight, lest we forget).


Quote:
Hopkins is a hard man as well, but I think Hagler is simply more skilled a boxer, from all areas, although inside it would be close as Hopkins has his tricks and tactics. It would be close.
I think Hagler is more skilled too; i'm looking at his ring generalship plus a totally hypothetical psychological edge to eke out a tight UD.

But what it boils down to, Sweet Pea, is little more than, "i ze something".

But i'd be laying money, actually.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

Hagler had a steel will,not that Hopkins didn't/doesn't - but Hagler wins this fight by effective counter-punching/pressing the action.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjo479
Now I want to make this perfectly clear.
The Bernard Hopkins that we see today, would not have beaten the Marvin Hagler that we all know of.

When I'm looking at this, I'm talking of the Bernard Hopkins that dismantled Tito Trinidad. That Bernard Hopkins was one of the best middleweights in the history of the game.

Marvelous Marvin Hagler and Bernard Hopkins are very much alike, they're hard men.. inside and outside of the squared circle. They both brought a very intimidating presence into the ring, and they both could fight to back up that presence.

But there is one major difference in styles that differentiates them... versatility.

Marvelous Marvin Hagler was a great fighter, but a fighter that relied on 3 things, conditioning, will, and physical strength. It was his goal to press a fight for 15 full rounds until whoever it was that was in front of him was gone. He carried this throughout his career, and he was absolutely brillaint in his work.

However, what would he do when a guy refused to stand with him, a guy that knows how to win, and that wouldn't buy into Hagler's game? Well, we all saw what he'd do, he'd keep trying. Hagler's fight with Sugar Ray Leonard set the blueprint and is the fight that I believe accurately depicts how Bernard Hopkins would have "Executed" Hagler, except in far more emphatic fashion then the much smaller Ray Leonard.

Hopkins is also, like Hagler, a HUGE middleweight. Physically powerful, and bruising. In a matchup of pure strength, this one is about as even as it gets. Many may think Hagler was stronger, but in terms of size and boxing functional strength, he was NOT.

The Hopkins at the time of the Trinidad fight would NOT have thrown a shot here and there, jumping in and out with a shot and looking to grab. He was a guy who put together punches, and found beautiful angles to land crushing shots. (His power was much more devestating a few years back, it has deteriorated with age, even Hopkins himself has admitted this) Lets not disregard the fact that Hopkins, just as Hagler was, has ALWAYS been in absolutely flawless condition.
Being as strong as Hopkins is, he would not have catered to Haglers style. He would have stuck him with a jab from the get go, letting Hagler start to bring the fight to him, and dissecting him with his overrall BETTER SKILLS and well roundedness.

Hagler was tremendous, but Hopkins just has more to work with. Hagler would be chasing Hopkins all night, but unlike the Hopkins we saw vs Eastman (a Hopkins that I like to refer to as slowing down, losing punching power, and the overall tenacity), the prime Bernard Hopkins was an absolutely murderous fighter. He would have shucked in and out (Hopkins is such a quicker fighter then the somewhat methodical Hagler) landing many series of devestating shots and leaving when any resistance was offered up from Hagler.

Certainly Hopkins would take a few shots in the bout, but with Hopkins's jaw of CAST IRON, there is absolutely no way that Hagler would have gotten to him enough to force a stoppage or even to significantly hurt Hopkins in my opinion. He would have chased him hard, he would have pressed the issue, but once Hopkins started Banging him and getting inside and mauling him, not giving Hagler any room, tapping him on the thighs, tangling him up, freeing up an arm and ripping a few uppercuts and short hooks (Hopkins is a perfectionist at this craft), he would gain control of Hagler.

Hopkins was too fast, equally strong, and had MANY MANY more options then Hagler. When Option 1 would fail for Hagler, he would have nothing else to resort to, of course The Marvelous one would try in vein, but it would be futile. Even when he beat Hearns, he had one option, go through all that punishment and do what he does best. Strength, will, and conditioning. Hopkins would NEVER get into that kind of fight with Hagler, and the result would be a hard fought Hopkins decision, potentially even stopping him late. Sugar Ray Leonard pulled it off, and he was nowhere near as strong as Hopkins, Hopkins is catlike quick, and there's no doubt in my mind he could pull off the same gimmick to perfection, except better. Just like he pulled off the gameplan set forth by Oscar De La Hoya on Felix Trinidad better.
Many holes in your argument, one is that youre refering to Sugar Ray Leonard as some guy who was fast and had no strength so therefore the fact that Bernard Hopkins is stronger would mean that he would beat Hagler? This makes no sense, SRL is an ATG was way more versitile than Bernard Hopkins can only dream of. SRL would make Bernard Hopkins look like an amateur if they fought how SRL fought Hagler in '87. I pick Hagler cause Hopkins gives away too many rounds in the begining with the hopes that he will catch towards the end of the fight due to his conditioning, this would be a big mistake if he tried that with Hagler cause Hagler would right there with him all the way til the end and eat him up.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:28 PM   #11
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

there are always going to be holes in anyones opinion. all i was referring to in saying what i said is simply this, hopkins has enough skills and wits to frustrate hagler much the same way leonard did with his hand speed , sorry for the misread but glad you mentioned it so i could clarify myself
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjo479
Marvelous Marvin Hagler was a great fighter, but a fighter that relied on 3 things, conditioning, will, and physical strength.
Utter bull****. I didn't bother reading any further. You obviously know next to nothing about Hagler and probably only saw his later fights.
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

IF he could make Hopkins fight his fight, then we're looking at a fight that Hagler wins with just sheer determination, using his smarts, and making Hopkins uncomfortable. I just can't see it happening. I think through anything that Hagler brings to the table, Hopkins sticks to his guns. He's smart enough to know what needs to be done to win the fight, and he knows to stick to the plan through ANY ROUGH spots that may occur.

Look how squared up Hagler's style was, he was always setting to let his punches go, and Hopkins is the kind of guy that can punch and move, stop and fire hard and quick combinations and get out, or tie up. He's just too smooth!

Hopkins has that uncanny ability to fight anyway he wants to fight. He can be smooth and fluid, he can stalk and pound, abuse the man and beat them up like a pure brawler. There is NO one set way that Bernard Hopkins can beat you! I think this would be a hard fought bout any way you look at it!
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

manassa im 47 yrs old my friend and boxed the golden gloves and then some dont disrespect me im here giving my opinion like everyone else and trust me i have alot of knowledge on boxing
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Old 07-23-2007, 10:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: Mavin Hagler Eats Bernard Hopkins

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Originally Posted by pjo479
manassa im 47 yrs old my friend and boxed the golden gloves and then some dont disrespect me im here giving my opinion like everyone else and trust me i have alot of knowledge on boxing
I couldn't care if you beat your first wife to death with her own leg, your opinion of Hagler is plain wrong. Hagler, one dimensional? Just about 99% of people would disagree with you. Watch some of his prime fights and learn.
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