Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-26-2007, 02:58 PM   #1
ChrisPontius
March 8th, 1971
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Holland
Posts: 9,643
vCash: 238
Default What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Both all time greats, Sugar Ray Robinson has the better legacy and ability of the two.

So what in what area would you say is Leonard better than Robinson, or at least his equal? Defence?
ChrisPontius is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 07-26-2007, 03:15 PM   #2
DaveTheWave
Man Extraordinaire
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 218
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Being elusive. Robinson took alot more punches then Leonard. He matches handspeed. Chin is also close.
DaveTheWave is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2007, 03:19 PM   #3
Duodenum
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,803
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Both all time greats, Sugar Ray Robinson has the better legacy and ability of the two.

So what in what area would you say is Leonard better than Robinson, or at least his equal? Defence?
It's a tough question, and I can only suggest possible answers which may or may not be true.

Ray Leonard may have been physically stronger, and perhaps a better infighter than Robby, but to suggest SRL was superior to Robinson in any respect might be pushing the envelope. The right uppercut which SRL used against Davey Boy Green is better than any uppercut I've seen Robby display in any footage I've seen of his, but that's a very limited amount of film out of his 201 matches. SRL also dropped Benitez with a fine uppercut in the 15th round of their match. With Robby, it seems that overhand rights and hooks are more prominent than uppercuts.

It may be that Ray Leonard was more adept at circling right than Robinson was. Few orthodox boxers of any era circled counter-clockwise more than SRL and Larry Holmes. I'd need to view more of both boxers in action, and think about it a bit.
Duodenum is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2007, 03:20 PM   #4
Titan1
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,867
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
Both all time greats, Sugar Ray Robinson has the better legacy and ability of the two.

So what in what area would you say is Leonard better than Robinson, or at least his equal? Defence?
Manipulating things to his advantage as far as fights, and other circumstances.
Titan1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2007, 03:23 PM   #5
hdog
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 157
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

I'd go with Leonard's lateral movement as well.
hdog is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2007, 04:20 PM   #6
Drew101
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: "...The Land of Dixon and Langford..."
Posts: 8,145
vCash: 0
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Leonard was more elusive, and maybe suprior in terms of his use of lateral movement. Also, SRL seemed to be more consistant than Robinson throughout the later rounds of his fights. I can't think of too many occasions where Leonard faded in the championship rounds (I guess the Hagler fight would be an exception), while Robinson did suffer some later round fades in a few of his bouts.
Drew101 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2007, 06:07 PM   #7
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,509
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew101
Leonard was more elusive, and maybe suprior in terms of his use of lateral movement. Also, SRL seemed to be more consistant than Robinson throughout the later rounds of his fights. I can't think of too many occasions where Leonard faded in the championship rounds (I guess the Hagler fight would be an exception), while Robinson did suffer some later round fades in a few of his bouts.
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2007, 06:16 PM   #8
achillesthegreat
FORTUNE FAVOURS THE BRAVE
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 18,269
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Leonard had better footwork and defence. I think Robinson had the edge offensively.
achillesthegreat is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2007, 06:39 PM   #9
McGrain
Diamond Dog
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 37,052
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Possibly none. I disagree strongly with chin - they were both around the same size but Robinson took many more shots at 160 because he fought there much more - certainly he's proved the better chin, let's say that.

Speed? Perhaps in literal terms, but in functional terms? I'm reminded of the scene in Unforgiven where Gene Hackmen explains about speed v accuracy. I think SRR punched as fast as could ever be called sensible and if Leonard edges him in this department (i'm not convinced) it is at the expense of accuracy. SRR made the punches go where they needed to.

Physical strength? Again, possible, but SRR is once more the guy who's proved it sharing clinches with naturally bigger men.

Elusive is a good shout, but SRR spends a lot more time in the danger zone firing so perhaps that's a little disingenuos. Can anyone think of a fight where SRR's primary goal was to remain out of range as a rule? Maybe.
McGrain is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2007, 07:44 PM   #10
Drew101
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: "...The Land of Dixon and Langford..."
Posts: 8,145
vCash: 0
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
That's right, Rooster...I was joking.

Leonard gets obliterated by your hero...Billy Backus.:

Last edited by boxingcar; 03-29-2006 at 09:34 AM.
Drew101 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2007, 10:40 PM   #11
Silver
The Champ is Here
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,440
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Possibly none. I disagree strongly with chin - they were both around the same size but Robinson took many more shots at 160 because he fought there much more - certainly he's proved the better chin, let's say that.

Speed? Perhaps in literal terms, but in functional terms? I'm reminded of the scene in Unforgiven where Gene Hackmen explains about speed v accuracy. I think SRR punched as fast as could ever be called sensible and if Leonard edges him in this department (i'm not convinced) it is at the expense of accuracy. SRR made the punches go where they needed to.

Physical strength? Again, possible, but SRR is once more the guy who's proved it sharing clinches with naturally bigger men.

Elusive is a good shout, but SRR spends a lot more time in the danger zone firing so perhaps that's a little disingenuos. Can anyone think of a fight where SRR's primary goal was to remain out of range as a rule? Maybe.
you brought up a good point. srr was more agressive then srl, so by mindset alone, srr was easier to find when comparing the two.
Silver is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2007, 01:42 AM   #12
la-califa
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 3,147
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Killer instinct. When Leonard had a fighter hurt, he attacked with a vengence! When Robinson hurt a guy, he stept up the assault & the knockout would usually come. But Leonard really went after a stricken opponent.
la-califa is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2007, 03:05 AM   #13
Holmes' Jab
Master Jabber
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,551
vCash: 1000
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
I'd say footwork and overall speed, including handspeed slightly. Robinson put his punches where they needed to go better though.
Holmes' Jab is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2007, 03:07 AM   #14
fists of fury
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: March for Revenge
Posts: 5,990
vCash: 1887
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by la-califa
Killer instinct. When Leonard had a fighter hurt, he attacked with a vengence! When Robinson hurt a guy, he stept up the assault & the knockout would usually come. But Leonard really went after a stricken opponent.
I don't know about that. Watch the second Turpin fight, or the 'St Valentine's Day Massacre' (Lamotta) or the Jean Stock fight when Robinson was a welterweight.
Robinson was a vicious finisher.
fists of fury is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2007, 06:20 AM   #15
Nemesis
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: nil satis nisi optimum
Posts: 825
vCash: 75
Default Re: What could Leonard do better than Robinson?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
What could Leonard do better than Robinson
?
Snorting cocaine, apparently
Nemesis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013