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Old 08-05-2008, 07:27 AM   #16
SorceryatCaesar
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

Gil Clancy said it: "It was a mistake coming in at 145".

You're disagreeing with Gil Clancy?

In all seriousness, I remember Manny Steward saying something, after the fight, to the effect that they left Tommy in the steam room too long. He knew it.

Tommy was on his toes in the 14th, the same way a corpse twitches in the mortuary.
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:37 AM   #17
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

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Originally Posted by SorceryatCaesar
Gil Clancy said it: "It was a mistake coming in at 145".

You're disagreeing with Gil Clancy?

In all seriousness, I remember Manny Steward saying something, after the fight, to the effect that they left Tommy in the steam room too long. He knew it.

Tommy was on his toes in the 14th, the same way a corpse twitches in the mortuary.
Yeah, if someone has excuses after losing a fight, they just must be taken seriously, mustn't they?

In all fairness to Tommy, he himself made no excuses. He said he was in great shape and that he didn't have any problems making weight. That, and the fact that he looked great until he got tagged, really closes the case for me. If there ever was one.
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:54 AM   #18
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

Im just tired of excuses in general, really badly annoying.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:21 AM   #19
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

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Originally Posted by SorceryatCaesar
Hearns weighed in at 145, which cost him in the end. NOt sure why, but they left him in the steam room too long. He was completely dehydrated, and after 12 rounds his legs were gone. If Hearns had weighed in at 147 he quite possibly has the stamina to go 15 and hold his lead.
The reason Tommy Hearns didn't win the fight is because Leonard landed a right hand. Forget about the excuses.

Hearns, even in the second fight with Leonard, had trouble taking Leonard's best shots. Ray was an underrated puncher, and everytime he seemed to land a right on Tommy, his legs would turn into jelly. It is a credit to Hearns that he lasted as long as he did in the first fight considering how highly I rate Leonard when it comes to finishing ability.

P.S I agree with Teeto. **** excuses.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:32 AM   #20
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

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The reason Tommy Hearns didn't win the fight is because Leonard landed a right hand. Forget about the excuses.

Hearns, even in the second fight with Leonard, had trouble taking Leonard's best shots. Ray was an underrated puncher, and everytime he seemed to land a right on Tommy, his legs would turn into jelly. It is a credit to Hearns that he lasted as long as he did in the first fight considering how highly I rate Leonard when it comes to finishing ability.

P.S I agree with Teeto. **** excuses.
Yeah, on that you said of the rematch, i really thought that on the punches both landed (not quantity or anything), Leonard's were of a much better quality, them short hooks he let fly up close were much better quslity imo than the shots Hearns landed throughout, people will mention the knockdowns now, but i stand by that.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:35 AM   #21
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

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Originally Posted by teeto
Yeah, on that you said of the rematch, i really thought that on the punches both landed (not quantity or anything), Leonard's were of a much better quality, them short hooks he let fly up close were much better quslity imo than the shots Hearns landed throughout, people will mention the knockdowns now, but i stand by that.
Nobody is trying to discredit anybody. Hearns was an all time great as was Leonard, but in the first fight I think it is disgusting to bring up excuses considering how important that fight was to both fighters and Boxing in general. Reality is, had Hearns carried himself to the final bell and got the decision, we wouldn't have heard about any excuses. Hearns fought a great fight, but Leonard's shots were to much for Hearns to take. That is why he lost the fight, he couldn't take Leonard's best shots, whereas Leonard could take Hearns best shots that night. No more, no less.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:45 AM   #22
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

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Nobody is trying to discredit anybody. Hearns was an all time great as was Leonard, but in the first fight I think it is disgusting to bring up excuses considering how important that fight was to both fighters and Boxing in general. Reality is, had Hearns carried himself to the final bell and got the decision, we wouldn't have heard about any excuses. Hearns fought a great fight, but Leonard's shots were to much for Hearns to take. That is why he lost the fight, he couldn't take Leonard's best shots, whereas Leonard could take Hearns best shots that night. No more, no less.
Totally right. Yeah, i wasnt discrediting anybody, i wouldnt, just giving my take on their bouts.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:47 AM   #23
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

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Totally right. Yeah, i wasnt discrediting anybody, i wouldnt, just giving my take on their bouts.
Sorry dude.

I didn't mean you were discrediting somebody, was just announcing it so no angry Hearns fans posted something malicious in response.

You know how ESB can get.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:49 AM   #24
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

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Originally Posted by teeto
Im just tired of excuses in general, really badly annoying.
I agree, especially when the fighter makes excuses:

BORKED
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:58 AM   #25
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

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Originally Posted by selfkill
Sorry dude.

I didn't mean you were discrediting somebody, was just announcing it so no angry Hearns fans posted something malicious in response.

You know how ESB can get.
No apology needed Selfkill!
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:00 AM   #26
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

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I agree, especially when the fighter makes excuses:

BORKED
Ha, i know! I wont take that to hart or anything because im a Duran fan! Excuses are shit from any fighter, i understand why they make them, its hard to accept a loss, especially when you're a great wiinner, but they're still not right.

Duran has maybe had the biggest (maybe) win of all-time tarnished by an excuse though, ridiculous how it's 'Leonard lost that fight because of his tactics and not Duran won it'.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:05 AM   #27
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

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Originally Posted by teeto
Ha, i know! I wont take that to hart or anything because im a Duran fan! Excuses are shit from any fighter, i understand why they make them, its hard to accept a loss, especially when you're a great wiinner, but they're still not right.

Duran has maybe had the biggest (maybe) win of all-time tarnished by an excuse though, ridiculous how it's 'Leonard lost that fight because of his tactics and not Duran won it'.
I don't feel the fight with Leonard was tarnised by an excuse. I do agree that Leonard fought the wrong fight, but that isn't to say Duran is discredited. The fact is, Leonard went into the ring at his peak and still lost the fight. That will always stand as an incredible win for Duran at 147, but I think the general consesus is that Leonard fought the wrong fight, and that was backed up by the two return bouts.

In any event, one of the greatest wins of all time considering Duran was a lightweight and that was a 100% Leonard in that ring.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:10 AM   #28
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

Quote:
Originally Posted by teeto
Ha, i know! I wont take that to hart or anything because im a Duran fan! Excuses are shit from any fighter, i understand why they make them, its hard to accept a loss, especially when you're a great wiinner, but they're still not right.

Duran has maybe had the biggest (maybe) win of all-time tarnished by an excuse though, ridiculous how it's 'Leonard lost that fight because of his tactics and not Duran won it'.
Yeah I know what you mean, I can imagine it's probably quite hard for someone like Duran to come to terms with losing fights.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:24 AM   #29
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

Quote:
Originally Posted by selfkill
I don't feel the fight with Leonard was tarnised by an excuse. I do agree that Leonard fought the wrong fight, but that isn't to say Duran is discredited. The fact is, Leonard went into the ring at his peak and still lost the fight. That will always stand as an incredible win for Duran at 147, but I think the general consesus is that Leonard fought the wrong fight, and that was backed up by the two return bouts.

In any event, one of the greatest wins of all time considering Duran was a lightweight and that was a 100% Leonard in that ring.
But Duran reaaly disnt allow Leonard room in the first bout. You might be right though. In both fights they recorded great wins over one another, i dont really think 2 much about the third one to be honest.

I do think that claiming fighting the wrong gameplan is a bit of an excuse personally, but maybe im biased. Also though, it must be said of Duran's excuse making in the return bout, you know about being underprepared? It may be true though that both excuses are valid? I just dont like excuses.

I have some video of Emmanuel Steward saying that Tommy Hearns said he broke his right hand during the fight with Hagler, and he knew he had, but he fought on, got KOd, and never brought it up after the fight because he didnt wanna tarnish Hagler's achievement in any way, if its true i respect him for that.
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Old 08-05-2008, 11:25 AM   #30
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Default Re: Leonard says Hearns was his biggest rival AND toughest opponent

Leonard - Hearns I was a great fight. Two great fighters who both fought great fights. There are very few, if any, welterweights in history who would have beaten either of those guys that night. There's no need for an excuse. Tommy was hurt in the middle rounds and then came out, got on his toes and put on a boxing exhibition for several rounds. I don't think he could've pulled that off if he wasn't close to his best. Tommy doesn't need an excuse. He was brilliant and courageous.
I take excuses with a grain of salt. Tommy came in too light, Leonard fought the wrong fight in Montreal, Duran was poorly trained in New Orleans, yada, yada, yada. The result is what stands. Two men get in the ring and one (usually) comes out on top.
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