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Old 08-05-2008, 10:10 PM   #1
Russell
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Default Current All Time Or Near Greats?

What active fighters are already established ATG's?

No well over 35 guys, basically. I'm looking for fresher fighters. No Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkin's Oscar De La Hoya's, and so on.

Who is one or nearly so? That's mostly what I'm looking through. Fighters near greatness.

Will it be a good start for either Campbell of Guzman for either after their fight?

Could Ivan Calderon be the next Ricardo Lopez? A great, undefeated fighter in a somewhat weak division?

Honestly, depending on what Gerry Penaloso does in this second career of his, he might be remembered as a great eastern fighter.

Almost every one of his losses has been a screwjob or a borderline one.

Quite the 20 years he's had in the fighting game already, and he's aiming for his third weight division title, I believe.

Thoughts?
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

BORKED
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

Manny Pacquaio is only 29 and hes already a ATG, top 10 featherweight in history (top 5 h2h). His record against 3 future hall of famers MAB, Morales, and JMM is an astounding 5-1-1(3kos) plus he has beaten a slew of other top contenders.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:21 PM   #4
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

Pacquiao's wins over top eastern fighters before coming to the US are unbelievably underrated.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

How do we know Marquez is a future HOF'er?

I guarantee he wouldn't have a hope in hell had he been less visible in America.As it is he still probably has to wait a very long time.
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:55 PM   #6
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
Manny Pacquaio is only 29 and hes already a ATG, top 10 featherweight in history (top 5 h2h).
Nah ah.
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:02 AM   #7
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

The Pacman and PBF. Nobody else right now if we don´t include the old guys.
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:54 AM   #8
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

Roy Jones sneaks in right at the bottom; Mayweather may have a crack a few years down the line; Paciquao is on the right road, but again only time will tell.

IMO, you need to give it a decade or so post retirement before you can really judge if a fighter was great, with the obvious odd exception.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:35 PM   #9
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Nah ah.


why not?



The Fall 2008 Edition of Ring Magazine Claimed "Pacquiao is one of the best southpaws of all time. He's faster and more powerful than most, and he can catch you at unexpected moments with short, crisp punches. he throws a left cross with speed and precision, and when he uses his good food speed to charge into an opponents range, its among the most exciting moments in boxing today. He uses a good right hand to the body, and has so many weapons in his arsenal he sometimes forgets to use them all."


Pacquaio already has the accomplishments and resume, but when you look at h2h facots hes a southpaw freak of nature with his straight left one of the sharpest most perfectly timed knockout punches I have seen in history, He is a two fisted assasin who is unpredictable as hell, he comes at all angles, he has speed accuracy timing, and he has the heart of a warrior.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

Quote:
Paciquao is on the right road, but again only time will tell.

On the Right road? he has already beaten great hall of fame fighters and and has already established a great resume and he isnt even 30 yet! i would say hes already there, but if he wants to go down as a top 10-20 p4p great throughout history, then he will have to move up in weight and beat some very good fighters as he gets older. then he will be a lock for top 15 p4p all time.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuzieQ49
why not?



The Fall 2008 Edition of Ring Magazine Claimed "Pacquiao is one of the best southpaws of all time. He's faster and more powerful than most, and he can catch you at unexpected moments with short, crisp punches. he throws a left cross with speed and precision, and when he uses his good food speed to charge into an opponents range, its among the most exciting moments in boxing today. He uses a good right hand to the body, and has so many weapons in his arsenal he sometimes forgets to use them all."


Pacquaio already has the accomplishments and resume, but when you look at h2h facots hes a southpaw freak of nature with his straight left one of the sharpest most perfectly timed knockout punches I have seen in history, He is a two fisted assasin who is unpredictable as hell, he comes at all angles, he has speed accuracy timing, and he has the heart of a warrior.
You're dead on about Pacquiao. Too many fanboys with agendas (I'm not including you in this Sweet Pea, I know you will have genuine reasons, but I respectfully disagree) just run him down on these forums for no reason, when he is a genuine 21st century great. Yes, he has flaws, but which ATG didn't? His resume is strong and will only get better. If he can win the 3rd fight with Marquez (which surely will happen at some point) convincingly, and maybe unify the lightweight belts or win a belt at 140, he surely MUST be considered an ATG.

RJJ is obviously a true ATG already so no need to explain that. Of the guys currently in action and under 35 (even if PBF was still fighting, I dunno if his resume is good enough for ATG status- Joe Calzaghe's certainly is not), then I don't think anyone else has achieved enough to yet be considered, but I think there are some who have the potential, and may do so. David Haye is already the 2nd best cruiserweight ever after Holyfield h2h IMO, and if he can beat the best guys at heavy (Wlad and the winner of Vitali-Peter) then he could have a long reign and be considered an ATG... but I wouldn't fancy him v Vitali Klitschko though, so who knows. Kelly Pavlik and Arthur Abraham are both excellent middleweight champions, but need to achieve much more before they are considered 'great', never mind atg.
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Old 08-06-2008, 01:04 PM   #12
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

marquez
Cristian Mijares
Rafael Marquez (great puncher)
Israel Vasqeuz
Joel Casamayor has a shout
margarito looks promising
if cotto can avenge that loss he will go a long way towrds greatness
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

Pacman sucks on a H2H basis.
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyVercettiX
Pacman sucks on a H2H basis.
That's one way to put it. I personally think head to head is his absolute worst category for judging him in comparison to the other greats, because I don't see many ATG Feathers he'd beat in their prime.

As for his resume, I've been through it enough I think, he beat 3 of the best Feathers of his generation, most in controversial circumstances. Morales outboxed him cleanly in their first fight while he was already on the slide. He beat Morales in the rematches, by which time he was finished already, as he showed in other matches against the likes of Raheem. Barrera I was his best win, no matter how shitty Barrera looked, because he was near his prime at least. Both of the Marquez fights are highly controversial. Otherwise, his status is more based on titles and weight jumping instead of quality wins. Many Feathers have better resumes, and I'd pick most great Feathers to beat him head to head. Saldivar was a better Featherweight.
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Old 08-06-2008, 04:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Current All Time Or Near Greats?

I'm not a fan of Manny P's. I was definitely rooting against him against all 3 of the Mexican greats in all those fights. I'd grudgingly have to say that he's achieved ATG status already. I'd say he's on the list and what he does from here on out could move him up or down (but not off) the list.
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