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Old 08-06-2008, 11:37 AM   #1
Bill Butcher
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Default Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

If Pea had gotten the decision vs Ramirez then he would have faced Chavez in a big unification match but since he was robbed, Ramirez fought & was beaten by Chavez.

If the judges were not wearing blindfolds in the Pea Ramirez fight.... who wins this mega fight between these outstanding fighters ?

I think Julio Cesar Chavez takes this one by split decision at this particular time in their careers. His reflexes were much better than in 1993 when they actually did fight. Chavez was the man then in 87 & even the 2nd best wouldnt beat him IMO.

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Old 08-06-2008, 12:05 PM   #2
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Butcher
If Pea had gotten the decision vs Ramirez then he would have faced Chavez in a big unification match but since he was robbed, Ramirez fought & was beaten by Chavez.

If the judges were not wearing blindfolds in the Pea Ramirez fight.... who wins this mega fight between these outstanding fighters ?

I think Julio Cesar Chavez takes this one by split decision at this particular time in their careers. His reflexes were much better than in 1993 when they actually did fight. Chavez was the man then in 87 & even the 2nd best wouldnt beat him IMO.

I agree but JCC wins by UD IMO. pea was still only a pro of 3 years in 1987
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE
I agree but JCC wins by UD IMO. pea was still only a pro of 3 years in 1987
Yes, And I believe Lou Duva, Whitaker's Manager stated they weren't ready for Chavez. At that time.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by TIGEREDGE
I agree but JCC wins by UD IMO. pea was still only a pro of 3 years in 1987
OK, I`ll give you that one.

Id pick JCC by SD if he fought the same Whitaker that OFFICIALLY beat Ramirez & Nelson but anything short of a Rosario type display & Id lean Pea`s way, very hard to choose a definite winner between these 2 at their absolute best. It wouldnt suprise me to see a legitimate draw in a 12 rd fight but in a 15 rder, Id always lean towards El Gran Campeon.

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Old 08-06-2008, 05:24 PM   #5
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

Chavez would have been too much for Pea. IF people will remember almost everyone asked Duva when he'd put Pea in with Chavez right after the Taylor fight and Duva said when the time was right.
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

Pea schooled Ramirez in 1988, Chavez fought him later in that year, not 1987. In 1988 the fight would've been quite close. It really depends on how the judges would've scored it considering Pea would've used the same strategy he used in the Ramirez fight. He won at least 10 rounds against Ramirez in my book.
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Old 08-06-2008, 05:42 PM   #7
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher
OK, I`ll give you that one.

Id pick JCC by SD if he fought the same Whitaker that OFFICIALLY beat Ramirez & Nelson but anything short of a Rosario type display & Id lean Pea`s way, very hard to choose a definite winner between these 2 at their absolute best. It wouldnt suprise me to see a legitimate draw in a 12 rd fight but in a 15 rder, Id always lean towards El Gran Campeon.

The version that beat Nelson was arguably the single best version of Whitaker ever seen and fought with the perfect style to beat just about any pressure fighter. He beat an ATG in dominating fashion and won 118-110 on my cards.
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Old 08-06-2008, 06:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
The version that beat Nelson was arguably the single best version of Whitaker ever seen and fought with the perfect style to beat just about any pressure fighter. He beat an ATG in dominating fashion and won 118-110 on my cards.
That was Whitaker's most versatile performance. That fight was to Whitaker like De Jesus III was to Duran. IMO that fight truely defined Whitaker's style as a fighter.

The judge who scored the fight 115-113 Whitaker should have been hung.
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:20 PM   #9
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by Robbi
That was Whitaker's most versatile performance. That fight was to Whitaker like De Jesus III was to Duran. IMO that fight truely defined Whitaker's style as a fighter.

The judge who scored the fight 115-113 Whitaker should have been hung.
That judge was a ****in moron. It was probably Chuck Giampa in disguise.

I personally liked Whitaker`s rematch with Ramirez as his best ever boxing display... he was awesome that night... I had it 12-0 for Pernell.
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

There careers and primes didn't exactly overlap. Although prime for prime Pea is a difficult matchup for Chavez, Chavez was awesome in '87 and I'll give him the edge in that timeframe. It would always be a tough fight, but I think Chavez would be able to force enough exchanges and do enough work to the body to pull this one out.
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Old 08-06-2008, 07:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
Pea schooled Ramirez in 1988, Chavez fought him later in that year, not 1987. In 1988 the fight would've been quite close. It really depends on how the judges would've scored it considering Pea would've used the same strategy he used in the Ramirez fight. He won at least 10 rounds against Ramirez in my book.
Your right Pea... Chavez did fight Ramirez in 1988.

One of my all time fav myth matches is Chavez who beat Rosario vs Pea who beat Ramirez, I know Chavez beat Rosario in 87, I must have had that in my head at the time.

Ps. Those 2 on those nights were the best I have personally ever seen them..... vintage Chavez & vintage Whitaker.... poor Rosario & poor Ramirez.

For a pure professional grinding beatdown, you cant top JCC v Rosario & for a pure boxing masterclass of the highest order you cant touch what Pea did to Ramirez... beautiful.

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Old 08-07-2008, 02:51 AM   #12
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

Chavez went slightly off the boil in 88. Aguilar was a though the motions fight and Ramirez was a friend and both fought like that. Chavez would of had to of seriously improved to beat Whitaker.

But in 1988 Chavez could of, and I think Chavez wins either a comfortable 12 round decision or by late stoppage.
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Old 08-07-2008, 06:48 AM   #13
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by TBooze
Chavez went slightly off the boil in 88. Aguilar was a though the motions fight and Ramirez was a friend and both fought like that. Chavez would of had to of seriously improved to beat Whitaker.

But in 1988 Chavez could of, and I think Chavez wins either a comfortable 12 round decision or by late stoppage.
Based on what does Chavez comfortably outpoint or stop Whitaker in 1988?

Between 1986 and 1990 Chavez had all of one dominant victory over a world class fighter. He struggled mightily with Laporte, he struggled with Lockridge, he had a going through the motions fight with Ramirez, he struggled with Roger Mayweather in the rematch and of course got within 2 seconds of losing to Taylor. Rosario had a style made to order for Chavez - guy without great defense that looks to knock you out (ain't happening with Chavez's chin) with questionable stamina (again, not something you want against Chavez).

I just don't see what makes Chavez comfortably beat Whitaker at all, unless of course we're talking a Whitaker with a broken hand, like the one that beat Ramirez (comfortably).
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Old 08-07-2008, 06:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

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Originally Posted by sweet_scientist
Based on what does Chavez comfortably outpoint or stop Whitaker in 1988?
Chavez on Rosario form is at his very best, he had nothing to motivate him in 1988 hence the lackluster wins over Aguilar and Ramirez.

Whitaker probably did not peak until 1990/91, but had a style to be super competitive against Chavez.

Whitaker would I suspect win the early rounds in a 1988 battle, but like Taylor (who was in better form than Whitaker at the time), Chavez would grind down Sweet Pea and be on top of him by the later middle rounds.

Then it would be just a case of if Sweet Pea could make it to the final bell, thus my picks either Chavez by late stoppage or comfortable points win.

Remember how good Chavez was in them days, and remember Whitaker was two/three years away from peaking.
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Old 08-07-2008, 07:05 AM   #15
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Default Re: Chavez v Whitaker - 1987 (135 lbs)

This is actually hard for me, because Chavez at 135 was at his absolute h2h best, but i will pick Whitaker everytime.
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