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Old 08-06-2008, 11:39 AM   #1
Unforgiven
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Default Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Older guys who can remember what the game was like in the 40s, 50s, 60s lament the decline of boxing, and even us younger ones who remember the 80s can see the drop in the standard and status of boxing.

And, no, it's not just hopeless nostalgia to say the game was better then. It was better, fighters paid their dues and learned their craft back then. Contenders were hungry, all of them, chasing after a championship shot. Go back before the proliferation of "world titles" and weight divisions, there's only 8 world champions in total. Generally the boxers were better back then.
And the average man of the street would know who the champion was, certainly the heavyweight champion, and his rivals. Nowadays few know, and fewer care.

In the 30s and 40s they had boxing - professional boxing - every week, several times a week, in several venues in all major cities and smaller towns too. Here in London, there were dozens of boxing halls and venues, venues that haven't hosted fights in half a century, buildings that no longer exist. Over in the US, New York in particularly, the culture of boxing and boxing clubs was massive, the pro circuit, the smaller clubs, "smokers" and the amateur circuit, the golden age of the golden gloves.

Will boxing ever regain some of its vitality and expand back to some semblance of what is once was ?
Or is it destined to stumble on as a fringe act producing just enough talent to fuel the occasional corporate "superfight" ?
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

What you are looking at is what you got. There are a variety of reasons for this, but we all know them I think.

What did you think of the Vasquez-Marquez trilogy?
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Within the last couple of years, There have been alot of fights that have been made due to public demand. Actually more than normally in recent years. But so goes the Heavyweight Division so goes Boxing... We need a charasmatic, electrifying Heavyweight Champion to emerge & gather interest in the sport again. There is nothing like a Heavyweight Championship fight to get even the casual sportsfans attention.
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Old 08-06-2008, 11:52 AM   #4
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
What you are looking at is what you got. There are a variety of reasons for this, but we all know them I think.

What did you think of the Vasquez-Marquez trilogy?
Good fights. Especially considering they are old men for bantams.

True, what I'm looking at is what we got. But things change. I wonder whether boxing can come up again.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven
Older guys who can remember what the game was like in the 40s, 50s, 60s lament the decline of boxing, and even us younger ones who remember the 80s can see the drop in the standard and status of boxing.

And, no, it's not just hopeless nostalgia to say the game was better then. It was better, fighters paid their dues and learned their craft back then. Contenders were hungry, all of them, chasing after a championship shot. Go back before the proliferation of "world titles" and weight divisions, there's only 8 world champions in total. Generally the boxers were better back then.
And the average man of the street would know who the champion was, certainly the heavyweight champion, and his rivals. Nowadays few know, and fewer care.

In the 30s and 40s they had boxing - professional boxing - every week, several times a week, in several venues in all major cities and smaller towns too. Here in London, there were dozens of boxing halls and venues, venues that haven't hosted fights in half a century, buildings that no longer exist. Over in the US, New York in particularly, the culture of boxing and boxing clubs was massive, the pro circuit, the smaller clubs, "smokers" and the amateur circuit, the golden age of the golden gloves.

Will boxing ever regain some of its vitality and expand back to some semblance of what is once was ?
Or is it destined to stumble on as a fringe act producing just enough talent to fuel the occasional corporate "superfight" ?
it could get back to where it was in 1980's and 70's but I don't see it gaining the popularity it attained during 20's, 30's 40's and 50's. the world is just a completely diferent world to those days
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven
Older guys who can remember what the game was like in the 40s, 50s, 60s lament the decline of boxing, and even us younger ones who remember the 80s can see the drop in the standard and status of boxing.

And, no, it's not just hopeless nostalgia to say the game was better then. It was better, fighters paid their dues and learned their craft back then. Contenders were hungry, all of them, chasing after a championship shot. Go back before the proliferation of "world titles" and weight divisions, there's only 8 world champions in total. Generally the boxers were better back then.
And the average man of the street would know who the champion was, certainly the heavyweight champion, and his rivals. Nowadays few know, and fewer care.

In the 30s and 40s they had boxing - professional boxing - every week, several times a week, in several venues in all major cities and smaller towns too. Here in London, there were dozens of boxing halls and venues, venues that haven't hosted fights in half a century, buildings that no longer exist. Over in the US, New York in particularly, the culture of boxing and boxing clubs was massive, the pro circuit, the smaller clubs, "smokers" and the amateur circuit, the golden age of the golden gloves.

Will boxing ever regain some of its vitality and expand back to some semblance of what is once was ?
Or is it destined to stumble on as a fringe act producing just enough talent to fuel the occasional corporate "superfight" ?
I disagree. Boxing has been brilliant so far this century, and I believe you are in fact guilty of the 'hopeless nostalgia' you deny. It's an inevitable and inescapable facet of the human condition though, I'll probably be guilty of it when I'm older too, so I wouldn't start a furious debate over whether it was better now or then, but all I know is that now we don't have fighters getting refused title shots because of their race, we don't have organized crime getting involved in the outcome of fights, we have better safety and better refereeing, we have fighters in control of their own destinies and being paid what they are worth, we have great fighters and great fights just as great as those of the past (though for a variety of reasons outwith the boxer's control, such as the lesser number of fights guys can now take to the 200+ fight careers of the past, and a general disdain in the older fan for the wealthy status and high-profile of boxer "celebrities", they are not recognized as such), and we should celebrate our great sport instead of this tired, unproductive, worthless, all too predictable lamenting it in favour of the great old grainy grey days of the past. Cotto v Margarito was only two weeks ago, and I have lived through the peaks and the greatest fights of Roy Jones Jr, Lennox Lewis, Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather Jr, Manny Pacquiao, Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales, Oscar De La Hoya, Felix Trinidad, Winky Wright, Johnny Tapia, Shane Mosley, Ricardo Lopez, Kostya Tszyu, and Juan Manuel Marquez, and the Cotto v Margarito fight was 2 weeks ago, and Marquez v Casamayor is on the horizon- I'm proud of this era and happy with the state of the game... even if you aren't.

PS: and the late 70s/early 80s were the greatest era for boxing, not 30s/40s/50s anyway.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:13 PM   #7
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven
Good fights. Especially considering they are old men for bantams.
I think it's the best trilogy i've seen, and it happened this decade. You also have stuff like the Pacqiauo-Marquez pair and Cotto Margarito...I think there are wonderful fights and fighters. I'm happy about the state of boxing. Delighted, really.

But I do understand what you are saying.

Quote:
True, what I'm looking at is what we got. But things change. I wonder whether boxing can come up again.
It won't change much. One major reason is that there is so much money to be made. But that money is concentrated at the absolute top of the pile. So a fighters "0" is a very very precious commodity because an unbeaten fighter is so much easier to market.

Matchmakers themselves say - it just isn't like it used to be. Guys are brought along slowly. Fighters who are coming from a position of strength wanting to make hard fights on the way up are very, very rare - it tends only to be desperate fighters that want the toughest tasks (why there is footage of a pre-Cotto Margarito challanging Floyd, of course).

That isn't going to change.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:26 PM   #8
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unforgiven
Older guys who can remember what the game was like in the 40s, 50s, 60s lament the decline of boxing, and even us younger ones who remember the 80s can see the drop in the standard and status of boxing.

And, no, it's not just hopeless nostalgia to say the game was better then. It was better, fighters paid their dues and learned their craft back then. Contenders were hungry, all of them, chasing after a championship shot. Go back before the proliferation of "world titles" and weight divisions, there's only 8 world champions in total. Generally the boxers were better back then.
And the average man of the street would know who the champion was, certainly the heavyweight champion, and his rivals. Nowadays few know, and fewer care.

In the 30s and 40s they had boxing - professional boxing - every week, several times a week, in several venues in all major cities and smaller towns too. Here in London, there were dozens of boxing halls and venues, venues that haven't hosted fights in half a century, buildings that no longer exist. Over in the US, New York in particularly, the culture of boxing and boxing clubs was massive, the pro circuit, the smaller clubs, "smokers" and the amateur circuit, the golden age of the golden gloves.

Will boxing ever regain some of its vitality and expand back to some semblance of what is once was ?
Or is it destined to stumble on as a fringe act producing just enough talent to fuel the occasional corporate "superfight" ?
It absolutely can, U, if there are more fans lilke this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:31 PM   #9
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

As soon as someone gets killed in the octagon, boxing will make a comeback if it hasn't done so already. Besides, most of the UFC fights I've seen after the first round is nothing but posturing and posing between the two fighters. Sometimes every 20 or 30 seconds of a 5 minute round, one of them will throw a kick or a punch.

I think UFC is overrated and the very fact of corruption in Olympic boxing scoring doesn't help the professional game either. Olympic boxing used to be a viable platform for most amateurs that are willing to take the next step. With all that has happened over the last two olympic games with regards to scoring, it's a no brainer that proffesional boxing suffers from it. The heavyweight championship of the world used to be the greatest title in professional sports. Sadly it means nothing now and the current crop of alphabet champions aren't doing the sport any justice.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

I agree that with la-califa that it's improved recently. I think pressure from MMA has forced boxing to make better fights. I was a fanatic in the 80's and a historian throughout but my interest in current fights had subsided in the last few years. Fights were avaialable in the 80's. I have many taped fights where I'd actually be taping a fight on 1 channel, then taping another fight between rounds on another channel. It was on the networks, Saturday and Sunday afternoon. I'd like to see that return but I'm not holding my breath. My interest has been renewed recently because of YouTube. You just need to be able to see good fights one way or another. Pay Per View hurts boxing in the long run. It makes a small number of people rich but doesn't bring fights to the average fan. If I was filthy rich I wouldn't pay $50 for the upcoming Mosely - Mayorga fight. I'm not sure I'd be interested if it was an ESPN fight. How the hell is that fight Pay per View worthy?
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:38 PM   #11
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PACFAN84
'hopeless nostalgia'. It's an inevitable and inescapable facet of the human condition, I'll probably be guilty of it when I'm older too, so I wouldn't start a furious debate over whether it was better now or then, but all I know is that now we don't have fighters getting refused title shots because of their race, we don't have organized crime getting involved in the outcome of fights, we have better safety and better refereeing, we have fighters in control of their own destinies and being paid what they are worth..... and we should celebrate our great sport instead of this tired, unproductive, worthless, all too predictable lamenting it in favour of the great old grainy grey days of the past.

PS: and the late 70s/early 80s were the greatest era for boxing, not 30s/40s/50s anyway.
"inevitable and inescapable facet of the human condition," so true, so well put, I'm sure as hell more guity of it as I get older, a great post, very well written, and I do agree with much that you say.

I do think that fighters as a whole, as a field, have improved as far as techinique, as I think is true in all sports; other than the first few rungs of boxing back in the day, there were some "technical slobs", you could get it away with then, just like even as recently as the 70's and 80's you could get away with being a fat, outta shape guard or tackle on an offensive line in the NFL.

For me, the biggest problem I have with the state of boxing today has nothing at all to do with the fighters, but with the sanctioning bodies; it is a maze for reasons that have already been cited on this forum too often and too many times.

But again, great post, you made me think, and I'm always grateful for that.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by john garfield
It absolutely can, U, if there are more fans lilke this:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

I love that guy. We should set up a collection so he doesn't have to work, he can just dance the bag and preach.
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Old 08-06-2008, 12:43 PM   #13
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinxkid
"inevitable and inescapable facet of the human condition," so true, so well put, I'm sure as hell more guity of it as I get older, a great post, very well written, and I do agree with much that you say.

I do think that fighters as a whole, as a field, have improved as far as techinique, as I think is true in all sports; other than the first few rungs of boxing back in the day, there were some "technical slobs", you could get it away with then, just like even as recently as the 70's and 80's you could get away with being a fat, outta shape guard or tackle on an offensive line in the NFL.

For me, the biggest problem I have with the state of boxing today has nothing at all to do with the fighters, but with the sanctioning bodies; it is a maze for reasons that have already been cited on this forum too often and too many times.

But again, great post, you made me think, and I'm always grateful for that.
A two-part post, the 1st part to reply to you Chinxkid: thank you very much for the complimentary reply, I do agree with your point though, about the sanctioning bodies. An unnecessary evil we should get rid of.

2nd part: I see UFC has been mentioned on this page. I'm sorry if I offend anyone here, but my opinion is that UFC is despicable. I don't want to take any fans from UFC to boost boxing, let them keep their fans. Boxing is the Noble Art- anyone who enjoys watching a man lying on the floor get his head kneed or elbowed into the ground til he passes out or the blood chokes him, is an animal who has no place in boxing.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:06 PM   #14
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by natonic
I agree that with la-califa that it's improved recently. I think pressure from MMA has forced boxing to make better fights. I was a fanatic in the 80's and a historian throughout but my interest in current fights had subsided in the last few years. Fights were avaialable in the 80's. I have many taped fights where I'd actually be taping a fight on 1 channel, then taping another fight between rounds on another channel. It was on the networks, Saturday and Sunday afternoon. I'd like to see that return but I'm not holding my breath. My interest has been renewed recently because of YouTube. You just need to be able to see good fights one way or another. Pay Per View hurts boxing in the long run. It makes a small number of people rich but doesn't bring fights to the average fan. If I was filthy rich I wouldn't pay $50 for the upcoming Mosely - Mayorga fight. I'm not sure I'd be interested if it was an ESPN fight. How the hell is that fight Pay per View worthy?
Great post! yeah, When was the last time there was a great fight on a Saturday afternoon on CBS, NBC, or ABC? If the masses aren't exposed to the sport, of course interest will wane.
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Old 08-06-2008, 02:27 PM   #15
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Default Re: Has boxing ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER of getting back to what in once was?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinxkid
"inevitable and inescapable facet of the human condition," so true, so well put, I'm sure as hell more guity of it as I get older, a great post, very well written, and I do agree with much that you say.

I do think that fighters as a whole, as a field, have improved as far as techinique, as I think is true in all sports; other than the first few rungs of boxing back in the day, there were some "technical slobs", you could get it away with then, just like even as recently as the 70's and 80's you could get away with being a fat, outta shape guard or tackle on an offensive line in the NFL.

For me, the biggest problem I have with the state of boxing today has nothing at all to do with the fighters, but with the sanctioning bodies; it is a maze for reasons that have already been cited on this forum too often and too many times.

But again, great post, you made me think, and I'm always grateful for that.
"just like even as recently as the 70's and 80's you could get away with being a fat, outta shape guard or tackle on an offensive line in the NFL"

I am certain I will be dismissed as merely a "nostalgic old fart" type, but I find it just crazy to assume that older offensive linemen were fat and out of shape compared to modern types. The heaviest Pittsburg Steeler in the 1970's was Mean Joe Greene at 6' 4" and 275 lbs and he was ripped. I don't think you could find a Steeler on those teams who was fat. The same is true of the Cowboys, Dolphins, etc.

Modern teams have more fat linemen and that is just a fact.

Having said that, I think modern NFL football is more exciting because of the sophisticated passing attacks. The decline of the running game has seen with it a shift to immense blockers who really can't pull and do open field cut blocking but are very useful in protecting the quarterback.
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