Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-08-2008, 02:04 PM   #16
Stonehands89
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,208
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by divac
Its ironic that Duran hated his opponents in much the same way as Hagler did, even more so.......

.....but for this fight, Duran knew that it was to his advantage for Hagler not to have a built up rage to destroy within him......

.....Hagler bit hook, line and sinker.....
Hagler never stepped on the accelerator against a Duran who's only chance to beat him was to have the fight fought at a controlled boxing match rhythm.

I was'nt impressed with how Hagler handled the superfight spotlight for the first time.

As been mentioned, Hagler idolized and had to deep a respect for Duran, and it played into the fight.

Btw, I scored the fight a draw!
An impressive performance by Hagler is was certainly not!
Interesting... I had Hagler up by only about 3 or 4 rounds.
Stonehands89 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 08-08-2008, 08:05 PM   #17
sweet_scientist
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,870
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by divac
Its ironic that Duran hated his opponents in much the same way as Hagler did, even more so.......

.....but for this fight, Duran knew that it was to his advantage for Hagler not to have a built up rage to destroy within him......

.....Hagler bit hook, line and sinker.....
Hagler never stepped on the accelerator against a Duran who's only chance to beat him was to have the fight fought at a controlled boxing match rhythm.

I was'nt impressed with how Hagler handled the superfight spotlight for the first time.

As been mentioned, Hagler idolized and had to deep a respect for Duran, and it played into the fight.

Btw, I scored the fight a draw!
An impressive performance by Hagler is was certainly not!
My goodness.....

A draw?

(insert John McEnroe voice and level of petulance.....) YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!?!

There's no way that was anything near a draw. Not even after 12 rounds was it a draw.

Hagler controlled Duran the whole way through, and Duran did nothing but peck and punch in spots and get outpunched and outworked in nearly every round.

Was it an impressive display by Hagler? Not in the overall scheme of things, but what was impressive was that once he engaged in a boxing match with Duran (which he probably shouldn't have) he fought Duran on his terms and beat him easily on those terms. He outboxed Duran and showed that he was (at that point) a better boxer than Duran, not simply a bigger, stronger, harder punching fighter, which of course, he was.

My scorecard for the fight: 147-141

Duran winning rounds 3,11 and 12. Hagler winning rounds 2,5,6,7,8,9,13,14, and 15. Rounds 1,4 and 10 even.

You could arguably give Duran round 4, but there's no real argument for scoring any other even rounds for him. Round 1 was close to a Hagler round.
sweet_scientist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 08:12 PM   #18
Robbi
Marvelous
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

I only have ESPN superbout highlights of the fight. Three rounds are missing. I'll need to get a hold of the full verison. It's certainly a fight for the fans of the 'sweet science' as it was a tactical affair. Duran fought intelligently. Not enough combinations though. His jab worked well, his right hand got home on a number of ocassions, and his defense was good. However, while he was competitive, he wasn't working enough to take a grip of the action.
Robbi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 08:59 PM   #19
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,096
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Robbi may I ask what you liked about this fight? I have to say that I'm going with the majority who say it was a dissapointment: There was very little action and lacking the fireworks you look for in big fights, Hagler seemed too controlled in his actions but Duran himself fought admirably. That's the best I can say about it.
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 09:01 PM   #20
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,096
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by divac
Its ironic that Duran hated his opponents in much the same way as Hagler did, even more so.......

.....but for this fight, Duran knew that it was to his advantage for Hagler not to have a built up rage to destroy within him......

.....Hagler bit hook, line and sinker.....
Hagler never stepped on the accelerator against a Duran who's only chance to beat him was to have the fight fought at a controlled boxing match rhythm.

I was'nt impressed with how Hagler handled the superfight spotlight for the first time.

As been mentioned, Hagler idolized and had to deep a respect for Duran, and it played into the fight.

Btw, I scored the fight a draw!
An impressive performance by Hagler is was certainly not!


Divac I must admit that I had Hagler by 1 point. He sucked in this fight.

No offense to all the Hagler fans
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 09:27 PM   #21
Bummy Davis
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New York
Posts: 8,835
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

It was a good performance because Duran was well conditioned unlike Hearns and Leonard II, Duran fought a great in fight and the fight was close I had Hagler ahead by 2 rounds...but Duran got some extra stars for that effort, not only was he older but as few weight classes over his head vs an ATG and made it real close....there are times Duran had to lose to much weight too soon and paid for it Leonard 2, Hearns, Kirkland Lang, Esteban Dejesus 1....I would say Duran walked away from that fight with some good marks but Hagler beat an tricky,cagey guy
Bummy Davis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 09:30 PM   #22
sweet_scientist
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,870
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Anyone care to post a scorecard for this fight? The whole fight is on youtube for all to see. I want to see personally which rounds people gave Duran to have him losing by a point or two, or even drawing.
sweet_scientist is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 09:43 PM   #23
Robbi
Marvelous
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
Robbi may I ask what you liked about this fight? I have to say that I'm going with the majority who say it was a dissapointment: There was very little action and lacking the fireworks you look for in big fights, Hagler seemed too controlled in his actions but Duran himself fought admirably. That's the best I can say about it.
I find it an interesting tactical battle. Duran's defense and intelligence was a joy to watch, although his usual ferocious attacks were scarce. Hagler lacked fire as well, but he was the one letting it all 'hang out' whenever it caught fire.

IMO Duran was the fighter who took the heat out of the battle by opting to fight on the outside. Many observers had Duran marked down for the graveyard going into this fight. I have The Ring magazine with the predictions. And well, Duran was said to to staring at the first knockout loss of his career.

Duran knew that even though he usually done his best work while coming forward looking to get inside, he just couldn't do that with Hagler. Mainly because if he fought 'outright' aggressively he would have given Hagler a physical type of fight. And more than likely Hagler would have accepted those terms and not backed down. A ferocious pace and lots of punches being thrown from either fighter, not smart. Duran also knew that by fighting his normal type of fight that his chin would have been tested more often than not. Instead of looking at his usual strengths as a fighter than served him well throughout his career, he looked at the physical side of the fight. Power, strength, and a physical affair which sapped energy. He decided against getting 'involved' with Hagler.
Robbi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 10:23 PM   #24
divac
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LosAngeles
Posts: 12,338
vCash: 75
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
I find it an interesting tactical battle. Duran's defense and intelligence was a joy to watch, although his usual ferocious attacks were scarce. Hagler lacked fire as well, but he was the one letting it all 'hang out' whenever it caught fire.

IMO Duran was the fighter who took the heat out of the battle by opting to fight on the outside. Many observers had Duran marked down for the graveyard going into this fight. I have The Ring magazine with the predictions. And well, Duran was said to to staring at the first knockout loss of his career.

Duran knew that even though he usually done his best work while coming forward looking to get inside, he just couldn't do that with Hagler. Mainly because if he fought 'outright' aggressively he would have given Hagler a physical type of fight. And more than likely Hagler would have accepted those terms and not backed down. A ferocious pace and lots of punches being thrown from either fighter, not smart. Duran also knew that by fighting his normal type of fight that his chin would have been tested more often than not. Instead of looking at his usual strengths as a fighter than served him well throughout his career, he looked at the physical side of the fight. Power, strength, and a physical affair which sapped energy. He decided against getting 'involved' with Hagler.
I agree with your depiction of how the fight unfolded Robbi.
I think you would agree that Duran's cautious approach was his only way to survive.....what boggles me is that Hagler let him ride the wave he wanted.

Duran dictated terms....tempo and pace....imho, Haglers mistake was letting him.....

Had Hagler forced the issue, I think he'd have beaten Duran convincingly!
divac is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 10:33 PM   #25
JohnThomas1
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,090
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by divac
I agree with your depiction of how the fight unfolded Robbi.
I think you would agree that Duran's cautious approach was his only way to survive.....what boggles me is that Hagler let him ride the wave he wanted.

Duran dictated terms....tempo and pace....imho, Haglers mistake was letting him.....

Had Hagler forced the issue, I think he'd have beaten Duran convincingly!
Exactly.
JohnThomas1 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 10:51 PM   #26
Mantequilla
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,482
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Duran mainly fought to survive and make Hagler look bad.He was never in the running to actually win.

It's quite similar to Sanchez' fight with Pat Cowdell in that respect.

Cowdell came in at late notice and fought to survive; not punching anywhere near enough to win many rounds, but managed to jab sanchez head in at times and feinted him into knots when Sal tried to take the initiative.
Mantequilla is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2008, 11:03 PM   #27
Robbi
Marvelous
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by divac
I agree with your depiction of how the fight unfolded Robbi.
I think you would agree that Duran's cautious approach was his only way to survive.....what boggles me is that Hagler let him ride the wave he wanted.

Duran dictated terms....tempo and pace....imho, Haglers mistake was letting him.....

Had Hagler forced the issue, I think he'd have beaten Duran convincingly!
I agree. If Hagler forced the action and never stood off Duran then he would have won with more authority. When looking back in hindsight Hagler handled Duran fairly easily inside when he decided to turn up the volume. Why he never sustained it is anyones guess.

When Hagler elected to drop inside aggressively, Duran basically covered up and never fired back on even terms. He waited until he had room to counter with the jab or straight right hand at long range after the inside fire lengthened into long range territory. Very unsual that Duran never decided to trade as much with Hagler inside. I'm not saying Duran should have been seeking this for long periods, but when it came his way he should have said "what the hell, lets have it". This even makes Hagler's decision to fight a relatively cautious and cagey fight at long range for the vast majority of the fight even more 'mysterous'.
Robbi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 12:01 AM   #28
divac
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LosAngeles
Posts: 12,338
vCash: 75
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
I agree. If Hagler forced the action and never stood off Duran then he would have won with more authority. When looking back in hindsight Hagler handled Duran fairly easily inside when he decided to turn up the volume. Why he never sustained it is anyones guess.

When Hagler elected to drop inside aggressively, Duran basically covered up and never fired back on even terms. He waited until he had room to counter with the jab or straight right hand at long range after the inside fire lengthened into long range territory. Very unsual that Duran never decided to trade as much with Hagler inside. I'm not saying Duran should have been seeking this for long periods, but when it came his way he should have said "what the hell, lets have it". This even makes Hagler's decision to fight a relatively cautious and cagey fight at long range for the vast majority of the fight even more 'mysterous'.
I dont think of it as suprising at all, that Duran did'nt decide to trade.

Duran up to that point had been stereotyped as being a physical ferocious type fighter, and so many expected that a War could break out.

The Hagler fight was Duran's first fight against a middleweight, and it was a true bonafide Middleweight at that......one of the best there ever was at that weight....so I dont think of it as unusual that Duran did'nt chose to trade with Hagler.

Duran was no fool......
What makes the greatest of the greats what they are, is in knowing their limitations....Duran certainly did'nt last fighting to the age that he did, not knowing his!
divac is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 12:19 AM   #29
birddog
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 506
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
Very unsual that Duran never decided to trade as much with Hagler inside. I'm not saying Duran should have been seeking this for long periods, but when it came his way he should have said "what the hell, lets have it".


I disagree, every time the got in close Hagler had the better of it, and realized it was not the way to go.

This even makes Hagler's decision to fight a relatively cautious and cagey fight at long range for the vast majority of the fight even more 'mysterous'.
I agree , but Marvin also for the most part won the outside match also.


I think this has to do with a number of things.

1 - this is heresay, but here goes. Duran was one of Hagler's favorite and most respected fighters, maybe one of his idols.

2 - Duran had just destroyed Cuevas and Moore, and the thumb issue. So Duran was back.

3 - Let's face it Marvs first marquis fight, under the big time against an idol

4 - I think, 1, 2 (moore Thumb), and 3, caused some of the way the fight went.

5 - I forget what round , but one or more of Durans Rights caused swelling in one of Haglers eyes (think it was the left), see item 2 Moore. Don't have the fight anymore.

All in all I think it adds up to why Hagler didn't just do away with Duran, As most at the time thought he would (myself included). Still I think the fight was 10-5 Hagler. I think that the Duran resurgence (see item 2) had something to do with the scoring imho.
birddog is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2008, 06:56 AM   #30
Robbi
Marvelous
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 7,550
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Hagler's Win Over Duran - Underrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by divac
I dont think of it as suprising at all, that Duran did'nt decide to trade.

Duran up to that point had been stereotyped as being a physical ferocious type fighter, and so many expected that a War could break out.

The Hagler fight was Duran's first fight against a middleweight, and it was a true bonafide Middleweight at that......one of the best there ever was at that weight....so I dont think of it as unusual that Duran did'nt chose to trade with Hagler.

Duran was no fool......
What makes the greatest of the greats what they are, is in knowing their limitations....Duran certainly did'nt last fighting to the age that he did, not knowing his!
Very unsual that Duran never decided to trade as much with Hagler inside. I'm not saying Duran should have been seeking this for long periods, but when it came his way he should have said "what the hell, lets have it".
Robbi is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:37 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013