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Old 08-08-2008, 01:23 PM   #1
Rumsfeld
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Default Obscure Boxing Bad Asses

I'd be curious to hear something about some fighters, rarely ever talked about (even here), who were exceptional, but often forgotten amongst discussions pertaining to great fighters.

Particularly those from lower weight classes.

If you can mention a few and tell me a bit about them, I'd appreciate it.
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: Obscure Boxing Bad Asses

Sweet Science, Raging Bu(), Mantequilla and Sweet Pea are your men here, but I will contribute with pleasure.


John Caldwell - It took Jofre to stop this guy who only had thirty something fights. Never really a Bantamweight he stepped up in class and weight from the flyweight division, where he reinged as British champ. After acheiveing recognition as the World champ by the British authorites he found himself outclassed at the heighest level in this bigger division, but you wanted badass, this guy is it. Seems to have been quick and hard hitting but was never going to be big enough at Bantam for a guy like Jofre, who murdered him and stopped him in ten. Caldwell says he was never the same again. He still had enough to lift the British title at the weight, but retired in 65 aged just 27. Tough, tough Northern Irishman.


Orlando Canizales - I think this guy was mad underated, and there are a couple of dudes who post here who consider him comparable to Duran. That may be pushing things a bit, and I feel he blew hot and cold, but he was another Bantamweight who needed to be reckoned with. Made something in the region of 15 defences of the world title after smashing Kelvin Seabrooks out in 15 rounds. Britian's Billy Hardy gave him a close fight, but there was always a sense that this technician puncher had something in the tank, and fought to the level of the opponents. Arguably a great fighter.


Midget Wolgast - If, like me, you rate the era's equally, this guy could be the best ever head to head at flyweight. But like Greb, the problem is there is no (or very little - speak to Sweet Scientist) footage available. He reads like lightning. A switch hitter who did as he pleased in the ring, he could be as easily compared to Roy Jones I think. If I was laying money I would pick him over his near contempory, Wilde, based upon what I know. This guy had something like 200 fights, and looks like a bad mother****er in every photograph I have seen, not threatening, just...like a young Hannibal Lecter is the best way I can think of putting it. Absolute monster. Retired around 1940.


Koichi Wajima - Self taught, this man was like a real life Rocky Balboa at light-middle. He led with his head, punched until he couldn't lift his arms, came back from the brink to score that last round KO and returned to the ring after horrible beatings to extract revengs. There is YouTube footage I can't possibly do justice to, so seek him out. Big-punching swarmer who fought from a crouch, if he was American or British he would have made more money than Gatti. Retired around '78, I think.

There are loads more but that will have to do for now. Check out this thread on Oakland Billy Smith for another addition:
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:53 PM   #3
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:55 PM   #4
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Default Re: Obscure Boxing Bad Asses

I'm intrigued by ex-Marine Danny Nardico who was the only man to deck Jake LaMotta. and Frankie DePaula who was a bomb-throwing madman who, thogh he lost to both Foster and Tiger, had each of these men on the deck before losing.
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Old 08-08-2008, 01:56 PM   #5
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Default Re: Obscure Boxing Bad Asses

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
Sweet Science, Raging Bu(), Mantequilla and Sweet Pea are your men here, but I will contribute with pleasure.


John Caldwell - It took Jofre to stop this guy who only had thirty something fights. Never really a Bantamweight he stepped up in class and weight from the flyweight division, where he reinged as British champ. After acheiveing recognition as the World champ by the British authorites he found himself outclassed at the heighest level in this bigger division, but you wanted badass, this guy is it. Seems to have been quick and hard hitting but was never going to be big enough at Bantam for a guy like Jofre, who murdered him and stopped him in ten. Caldwell says he was never the same again. He still had enough to lift the British title at the weight, but retired in 65 aged just 27. Tough, tough Northern Irishman.


Orlando Canizales - I think this guy was mad underated, and there are a couple of dudes who post here who consider him comparable to Duran. That may be pushing things a bit, and I feel he blew hot and cold, but he was another Bantamweight who needed to be reckoned with. Made something in the region of 15 defences of the world title after smashing Kelvin Seabrooks out in 15 rounds. Britian's Billy Hardy gave him a close fight, but there was always a sense that this technician puncher had something in the tank, and fought to the level of the opponents. Arguably a great fighter.


Midget Wolgast - If, like me, you rate the era's equally, this guy could be the best ever head to head at flyweight. But like Greb, the problem is there is no (or very little - speak to Sweet Scientist) footage available. He reads like lightning. A switch hitter who did as he pleased in the ring, he could be as easily compared to Roy Jones I think. If I was laying money I would pick him over his near contempory, Wilde, based upon what I know. This guy had something like 200 fights, and looks like a bad mother****er in every photograph I have seen, not threatening, just...like a young Hannibal Lecter is the best way I can think of putting it. Absolute monster. Retired around 1940.


Koichi Wajima - Self taught, this man was like a real life Rocky Balboa at light-middle. He led with his head, punched until he couldn't lift his arms, came back from the brink to score that last round KO and returned to the ring after horrible beatings to extract revengs. There is YouTube footage I can't possibly do justice to, so seek him out. Big-punching swarmer who fought from a crouch, if he was American or British he would have made more money than Gatti. Retired around '78, I think.

There are loads more but that will have to do for now. Check out this thread on Oakland Billy Smith for another addition:
I liked Wajima, and followed his career back in his day.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red cobra
I liked Wajima, and followed his career back in his day.

Quality!
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:05 PM   #7
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You don't hear nearly enough about Joe Becerra. He fought at bantamaweight and went 72-5-2 in what was only a seven year career -he retired at his absolute peak aged 24. What finished him was supposedly the Walter Ingram fight, in which Ingram was killed. Becerra never got over it and started to pull his punches a little bit, according to the tale.

He had to take the title on the road in search of pay, fighting for the title in LA before defences in Japan. The Ingram fight took place in Guadalajara, a non-title bout I think, just a celebration thing for his fans back home.

Tragic and a waste. Don't know what became of him, if anyone reads this and has a clue, let me know.

Badass though.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:12 PM   #8
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Default Re: Obscure Boxing Bad Asses

Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain
You don't hear nearly enough about Joe Becerra. He fought at bantamaweight and went 72-5-2 in what was only a seven year career -he retired at his absolute peak aged 24. What finished him was supposedly the Walter Ingram fight, in which Ingram was killed. Becerra never got over it and started to pull his punches a little bit, according to the tale.

He had to take the title on the road in search of pay, fighting for the title in LA before defences in Japan. The Ingram fight took place in Guadalajara, a non-title bout I think, just a celebration thing for his fans back home.

Tragic and a waste. Don't know what became of him, if anyone reads this and has a clue, let me know.

Badass though.
Good shout. Very highly regarded at the time he was fighting, especially with his fellow Mexicans, seems to have fallen into relative obscurity since.

The Canizales shout was very good as well. I'd love to have seen him vs the likes of Johnny Tapia or Harada.

I'll throw out Raul "Raton" Macias.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
The Canizales shout was very good as well. I'd love to have seen him vs the likes of Johnny Tapia or Harada.
Yeah, he's a reasonable pick to beat either - though he's the type of fighter that could lose to both, too.

Quote:
I'll throw out Raul "Raton" Macias.

...I'll just admit defeat up front on that one.

How about Dado Marino? Winning the flyweight title at 33 is no joke, especially as he had been champion at Bantam - and beaten twice in title fights. Epic rise to the top.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: Obscure Boxing Bad Asses

Tracy Harris Patterson, Floyd's stepson, was a very good fighter. He won world titles at 122 and 130. I don't think he completely skipped 126, but he wasn't there long. Not mentioned too much. Beat some good fighters. Lost decisions to Arturo Gatti twice.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Obscure Boxing Bad Asses

Teddy Yarosz had a fantastic record, beating 10 world champions including Billy Conn and Archie Moore.

Young Corbett III beat all sorts of top fighters, including Mickey Walker and Billy Conn.

Eddie Booker, Holman Williams, and Bob Foxworth are tough black fighters who fell through the cracks.

Joe Brown had an erratic career, but he was tough to beat in a big fight and reigned as lightweight champion for six years.

Duilio Loi beat Carlos Ortiz two of three and had a fantastic record, losing only 3 of 126 fights. He was never knocked out and rarely, if ever, floored.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD FOGEY
Teddy Yarosz had a fantastic record, beating 10 world champions including Billy Conn and Archie Moore.


Quote:
Eddie Booker, Holman Williams, and Bob Foxworth are tough black fighters who fell through the cracks.
I think there is plenty enough Holman Williams on the board, but I totally agree with you where Foxworth and Booker are concerned, Booker especially reads like he was something very special indeed. All the way up to heavy from middle, never stopped.

Quote:
Duilio Loi beat Carlos Ortiz two of three and had a fantastic record, losing only 3 of 126 fights. He was never knocked out and rarely, if ever, floored.
Again, I think that Loi is well represented in both Classic and general, but how about the man went 1-1-1 with him but never mad the hall of fame until recently, Eddie Perkins? THere's a forgotten great.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McGrain




I think there is plenty enough Holman Williams on the board, but I totally agree with you where Foxworth and Booker are concerned, Booker especially reads like he was something very special indeed. All the way up to heavy from middle, never stopped.



Again, I think that Loi is well represented in both Classic and general, but how about the man went 1-1-1 with him but never mad the hall of fame until recently, Eddie Perkins? THere's a forgotten great.
Perkins is a good choice also.

A most deserving Hall-of-Famer

Another guy who gets little credit considering how good he was is Melio Bettina.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:43 PM   #14
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.............Antonio Esparragoza, the WBA featherweight king in the late 80's should have been much bigger news than he was. Lack of televised fights and the world's general Barry McGuigan hangover led him to be mostly dismissed, though. I honestly don't remember ever seeing him written up in any of the magazines at the time, either.
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Old 08-08-2008, 02:45 PM   #15
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Mayar Monshipour.
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