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Old 07-31-2007, 10:30 AM   #106
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
Fitter is better -fullstop-
To tennis to football or both?

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Old 07-31-2007, 10:32 AM   #107
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Almost certainly none that will be of practical use.
Your lack of faith astounds me. Already they have started work on:


The Attack Kick

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The Secret Body Check

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The High-Tech Soccer Suit


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Old 07-31-2007, 10:32 AM   #108
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by Decebal
I think the tennis and football parallels are significant. In both sports physique has improved, and as a result, the sport has become more athletic, and less based on skill and technique. Saying that, there are still players out there who have good technique as well as a superior physique compared to old-timers. But it is unlikely that over all, elite sportsmen's technique today is as good as it was back then, when, without technique, you were nothing, because these days, you can get by on pure physique to a great extent. Is my view completely wrong?
I can't think of any without physique who get by on pure technique now with great sucess -fullstop- That applies to boxing and tennis -fullstop-
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:34 AM   #109
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by cross_trainer


Your lack of faith astounds me. Already they have started work on:


The Attack Kick

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Flip Kick

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Secret Body Check

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The Unmentionables Gambit

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

The High-Tech Soccer Suit

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]




And several other groundbreaking innovations...

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


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Old 07-31-2007, 10:35 AM   #110
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
Pretty much every single sport has progressed greatly since the 60s for various reasons, it would be nice to think boxing is special, but it is not -fullstop- Slightly less progress than some sports maybe -fullstop- But great progress regardless -fullstop-
This conversation is going in circles, though.

"Boxing has progressed because measurable sports have progressed"

"What about changes in technique and equipment?"

"These don't matter, because modern athletes are fitter"

"How do you know they're fitter?"

"Look at the measurable sports records".
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:35 AM   #111
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
I can't think of any without physique who get by on pure technique now with great sucess -fullstop- That applies to boxing and tennis -fullstop-
and unless you are really gifted like Maradonna, it applies to football too, to a large extent.
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:36 AM   #112
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
I can't think of any without physique who get by on pure technique now with great sucess -fullstop- That applies to boxing and tennis -fullstop-
Physique?

In that case, let me introduce you to the GOAT:

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Old 07-31-2007, 10:38 AM   #113
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by cross_trainer
This conversation is going in circles, though.

"Boxing has progressed because measurable sports have progressed"

"What about changes in technique and equipment?"

"These don't matter, because modern athletes are fitter"

"How do you know they're fitter?"

"Look at the measurable sports records".
Are you arguing that modern boxers are not in fact fitter? I can see why they might not be, given the way that some train, but then there are many reasons why they would be, too! For example a couple of weeks ago Khan was saying how much he had improved through getting a nutritionist in and a regular physiotherapist...
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:40 AM   #114
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe
I can't think of any without physique who get by on pure technique now with great sucess -fullstop- That applies to boxing and tennis -fullstop-
There are very few in history for whom this is the case. What is your point?

In football it is now not possible to get by without serious physique. AGAIN, what is your point? It seems to be that footballers now are bigger and stronger. I would agree. Do you think this is true for boxers too? Heavyweights, of course, may be slightly bigger, but i'll think that you'll find, generally, that middlewieghts are around 160lbs.
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:41 AM   #115
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by Decebal
Are you arguing that modern boxers are not in fact fitter? I can see why they might not be, given the way that some train, but then there are many reasons why they would be, too! For example a couple of weeks ago Khan was saying how much he had improved through getting a nutritionist in and a regular physiotherapist...
They're somewhat fitter, but I think that the differences have been exaggerated--largely because, as I said, in boxing there are too many different things to train for at once. Ali didn't use plyometrics, for example, but he was clearly fast enough.
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:41 AM   #116
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

Of course physique,weight training,nutrition,knowledge of skills and drugs have improved immensely,but in boxing this is not the be all and end all....You dont need to even lift a single weight,take any steroids,have a modern dietician or train by modern principles to be a great boxer....
Boxing is somewhat different in that you dont always progress in the intangibles as society goes on.....Why are kids getting fatter in the US and UK? Is that progress? Or is that a tribute to the modern lifestyle?
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:42 AM   #117
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

Quote:
Originally Posted by Decebal
Are you arguing that modern boxers are not in fact fitter? I can see why they might not be, given the way that some train, but then there are many reasons why they would be, too! For example a couple of weeks ago Khan was saying how much he had improved through getting a nutritionist in and a regular physiotherapist...
Modern boxers are every bit as fit as their less modern counterparts for what they do.

There may be a slight difference in real terms as modern fighters train for 12 rounds.
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:42 AM   #118
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by McGrain
, but i'll think that you'll find, generally, that middlewieghts are around 160lbs.
Impossible!
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:42 AM   #119
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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They're somewhat fitter.
Why do you think they are fitter?
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:44 AM   #120
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Default Re: ESB Essay Writing Competition: Comparing fighters from different eras

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Originally Posted by cross_trainer
They're somewhat fitter, but I think that the differences have been exaggerated--largely because, as I said, in boxing there are too many different things to train for at once. Ali didn't use plyometrics, for example, but he was clearly fast enough.
Then a good question would be: do you think that the past greats would have been even better if, whilst benefiting from every positive aspect of their actual training, they would have had a modern-day nutritionist, physiotherapist and fittness trainer?
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