Joe Gans

Bad_Intentions · 07-28-2007, 12:34 PM

how would you see gans's career go if he didn't have his manager?? (all the losses gans had were because of his manager who told him to take dives on some of them, he was a crook).

opinions.

OLD FOGEY · 07-28-2007, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad_Intentions

how would you see gans's career go if he didn't have his manager?? (all the losses gans had were because of his manager who told him to take dives on some of them, he was a crook).

opinions.

My only comment is I have watched the film of the McGovern fight several times and I am not certain that was a fix. I never understood why Gans kept getting up if he was just taking a dive.

janitor · 07-28-2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad_Intentions

how would you see gans's career go if he didn't have his manager?? (all the losses gans had were because of his manager who told him to take dives on some of them, he was a crook).

opinions.

His career would probably have been less sucesfull.

Although Gans did have to do some unfortunate things to get along he was ultimately guided to a world title fight. That in itself is more than a lot of black fighters of the period managed and I cannot think of any who did it without a savy manager.

Dempsey1238 · 07-28-2007, 12:55 PM

Gans, Dixion, got the title shots because of the underground works for there manager. If they didnt do what they were told, no title shot. Not saying its right, but if your black in the day, you either had to play along, or take the Jack Johnson route and stalk the champion.

Bad_Intentions · 07-28-2007, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dempsey1238

Gans, Dixion, got the title shots because of the underground works for there manager. If they didnt do what they were told, no title shot. Not saying its right, but if your black in the day, you either had to play along, or take the Jack Johnson route and stalk the champion.

how dissapointing

janitor · 07-28-2007, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dempsey1238

Not saying its right, but if your black in the day, you either had to play along, or take the Jack Johnson route and stalk the champion.

Even Johnson would not have got a title shot without the conections of his manager.

He only really became self managed after he won the title.

Dempsey1238 · 07-28-2007, 01:51 PM

But he follow Burns from country to country tauting him. Sure Johnson had to pay a large sum for the title shot to Burns. And his manager supported the money part. But Johnson's actions at least made Burns make the demands for the fight.

janitor · 07-28-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dempsey1238

But he follow Burns from country to country tauting him. Sure Johnson had to pay a large sum for the title shot to Burns. And his manager supported the money part. But Johnson's actions at least made Burns make the demands for the fight.

I think we should give Fitzpatrick credit for securing the fight. Burns had been in negotiations with Sam McVea and Sam Langford amongst others.

Dempsey1238 · 07-28-2007, 01:54 PM

At least vs Langford, Burns would be about the same size lol.

janitor · 07-28-2007, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dempsey1238

At least vs Langford, Burns would be about the same size lol.

Might have been just as one sided though.

Dempsey1238 · 07-28-2007, 02:49 PM

Not too sure on that. I give Burns a better shot at Langford than Johnson. Langford would be there brawling it out with Burns and vice vesa. It will be no clichfest like Johnson was. If Burns is able to land his right hand, he could win the fight, saying that I think Langford would have won, but I give Burns a better shot vs Langford than Johnson.

Minotauro · 07-28-2007, 03:32 PM

If he didn't throw those fights he may not have gotten a title shot but I think he would still be regarded very highly due to the opponents he did beat as well as the ones he lost/ drew to fair and square like take Langford to a decision or drawing with Walcott. And from what I read he deserved the Walcott fight and not having a title didn't really hurt Langford legacy so I think the same would be the case for Gans.

Mendoza · 07-28-2007, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD FOGEY

My only comment is I have watched the film of the McGovern fight several times and I am not certain that was a fix. I never understood why Gans kept getting up if he was just taking a dive.

The story of a fix came from people who bet and lost on Gans, or Gans camp. The film of the fight does not indicate a fix. Gans starts fine, and simply gets caught on a sweet spot behind his ear. McGovern does not allow Gans to recover.

janitor · 07-28-2007, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendoza

The story of a fix came from people who bet and lost on Gans, or Gans camp. The film of the fight does not indicate a fix. Gans starts fine, and simply gets caught on a sweet spot behind his ear. McGovern does not allow Gans to recover.

There is circumstantial evidence both ways.

Personaly I cannot give McGovern full credit for his greatest win and I cannot give Gans a free pass.

If it was on the level then it is the greatest performence by any bantemweight or featherweight by a significant margin.

Dempsey1238 · 07-28-2007, 06:00 PM

I dont think it was a fix either. Also what help McGovern was the lack of a netrual corner rule. It gave Gans ZERO chance to recover.

07-28-2007, 12:34 PM	#1
Bad_Intentions Champion East Side Guru Join Date: May 2007 Location: Miami FL, USA Posts: 9,732 vCash: 153	Joe Gans how would you see gans's career go if he didn't have his manager?? (all the losses gans had were because of his manager who told him to take dives on some of them, he was a crook). opinions.
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07-28-2007, 12:55 PM	#4
Dempsey1238 Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,352 vCash: 1000	Re: Joe Gans Gans, Dixion, got the title shots because of the underground works for there manager. If they didnt do what they were told, no title shot. Not saying its right, but if your black in the day, you either had to play along, or take the Jack Johnson route and stalk the champion.
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07-28-2007, 01:51 PM	#7
Dempsey1238 Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,352 vCash: 1000	Re: Joe Gans But he follow Burns from country to country tauting him. Sure Johnson had to pay a large sum for the title shot to Burns. And his manager supported the money part. But Johnson's actions at least made Burns make the demands for the fight.
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07-28-2007, 01:54 PM	#9
Dempsey1238 Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,352 vCash: 1000	Re: Joe Gans At least vs Langford, Burns would be about the same size lol.
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07-28-2007, 02:49 PM	#11
Dempsey1238 Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,352 vCash: 1000	Re: Joe Gans Not too sure on that. I give Burns a better shot at Langford than Johnson. Langford would be there brawling it out with Burns and vice vesa. It will be no clichfest like Johnson was. If Burns is able to land his right hand, he could win the fight, saying that I think Langford would have won, but I give Burns a better shot vs Langford than Johnson.
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07-28-2007, 03:32 PM	#12
Minotauro Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2007 Location: London Posts: 2,886 vCash: 1000	Re: Joe Gans If he didn't throw those fights he may not have gotten a title shot but I think he would still be regarded very highly due to the opponents he did beat as well as the ones he lost/ drew to fair and square like take Langford to a decision or drawing with Walcott. And from what I read he deserved the Walcott fight and not having a title didn't really hurt Langford legacy so I think the same would be the case for Gans.
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07-28-2007, 06:00 PM	#15
Dempsey1238 Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,352 vCash: 1000	Re: Joe Gans I dont think it was a fix either. Also what help McGovern was the lack of a netrual corner rule. It gave Gans ZERO chance to recover.
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