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Old 07-29-2007, 06:03 AM   #16
cardstars
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Quote:
Originally Posted by good right hand
i was thinking about this for a while,

i put bradocks win over buster douglas as the greatest upset in my book because i felt douglas was a natural heavy weight and a legitimate contender.

1. james bradock def max baer
2. james douglas def mike tyson
3. ray leonard def marvin hagler
4. george foreman def michael moorer
5. frankie randall def julio caesar chavez
6. antonio tarver def roy jones jr
7. michael spinks def larry holmes
8. robero duran def iran barkley
9. evander holyfeild def mike tyson
10. lloyd honeyghan def donald curry


my list is very spotty, so please fill me in about the ones i missed
#3 - Hagler didn't lose to Leonard in my book
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Old 07-29-2007, 06:13 AM   #17
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

what were the odds for the first barrera pacman fight? surely marco was fav for that one, pac wasnt was well known then
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Rahman over Lewis was huge nobody gave Rahman a chance.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Michael Bentt over Tommy Morrison.

I imagine a lot of people lost some major money over that fight.
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Old 07-29-2007, 01:53 PM   #20
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Well done. Isn't the Tyson mystique amazing, even after Holyfield's supreme effort Mike is still the strong fave. Unreal.
It sure is.

Going into the fight, Holyfield was washed up, and after it, it was a prime Holyfield vs a shot Tyson.

I think Liston also still something like a 2 to 1 favorite in the Clay-rematch. History repeating itself during Tyson-Holyfield II.
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Old 07-29-2007, 01:57 PM   #21
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Al McCoy over George Chip was a massive upset, and almost certainly warrants placement in the top 5.
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Another good example would be Young Corbett III against Jimmy McLarnin for the World Welterweight Title...
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:23 PM   #23
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Corbett Sullivan.
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
Corbett Sullivan.

It wasn´t a real surprise under the real experts. Sullivan was in overweight and old, Corbett on the other side was skills-wise 2 leagues above and young and hungry...


but I agree, in general a big upset...
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

At the time it was. Same with Tyson Holyfiled. Sullivan before he face Corbett was deem unbeatble. No one though Sullivan could have been beating.

Jeff Johnson is other upset, that in later we know was no big deal. Same goes with Liston Ali 1 and 2. Now we dont look at the Liston fights as big of a upset any more.
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:38 PM   #26
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

1---SRL/Hagler. Even if adopting the position that Marv was the rightful winner, there was nothing to indicate Ray could compete with Marv like that. Although only 30 years old, he'd had only one match over the preceding five years, against fringe WW contender Kevin Howard, a bout in which Ray sustained his first career knockdown, and would have lost badly if the referee did not award him with a ninth round gift stoppage. Beyond that, southpaws Ayub Kalule and Larry Bonds exposed significant technical deficiencies of Ray's against left handed opposition, and he was entering a contest against the consensus greatest southpaw champion in boxing history, as well as the generally acclaimed number one P4P boxer in the world at that time. Even with a shortened 12 round limit, ten ounce gloves, and a ring size suited for Ray, the quality of his performance still makes no sense in hindsight.

2---Clay/Liston I. When looking at how LH Doug Jones nearly dropped him in the first round a year earlier, and arguably deserved to win, the way he had been flattened by left hooks from Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper, and the severity with which Cooper stunned him in his previous match, then juxtaposing that against the length and power of Liston's left hook and body attack, the overwhelming odds in Liston's favor were reasonable. The skinny kid who got nailed by Banks, Jones and Cooper didn't appear remotely strong enough to stand up to Sonny.

3---Braddock/Baer. The arthritic Braddock had just turned 30, had 25 losses, and had to get off the deck to defeat novice professional Corn Griffin a year earlier. He also had a right hand which had been previously broken in competition. Baer was on a 14 match win streak which included a dominant 20 round decision over King Levinski, and the two greatest performances of his career immediately preceding his title defense against Braddock. Tommy Loughran boxed circles around Jimmy when Braddock failed to lift Loughran's LH Title in 1929. After Tommy decisioned Baer in 1931, he advised Maxie that he was telegraphing his shots, thus helping Baer improve his effectiveness. Maxie had never been floored, and had been undefeated for nearly four years. He was only 26 years old, and looked like he might dominate the heavyweights for years.

4---Holmes/Mercer. Larry was considered by many to be a rapidly aging boxer as early as his third title defense against Mike Weaver in 1979, before Holmes had even turned 30. Being one of the purest boxers to ever hold the HW Title, he didn't enjoy the benefit of being allowed a puncher's chance to win. He had been blown out by Mike Tyson in four rounds, over four years earlier, and at age 42 was nearly 35 pounds over the optimal weight of his youth. Mercer was an undefeated Olympic Gold Medalist coming off a devastating win over previously undefeated phenom Tommy Morrision. Just 30 years old, and with only 18 professional bouts behind him, he seemed primed to contend for the undisputed championship. Instead, the cagey veteran outboxed his powerful adversary from beginning to end, en route to his own shot at the title. An amazingly unexpected triumph.

5---Foreman/Moorer. No explanation necessary.

6---Pedro Flores/Yoko Gushiken. Fierce Eagle was considered by Harold Lederman to be the P4P best in the world, and a virtual lock to move up from the light flyweight division to consolidate the flyweight championships. Just 25 years old, he was undefeated, considered by many to be the greatest southpaw of the late 1970's, and had held the WBA Light Flyweight Title for about five years. He had defeated Flores via 15 round decision six months earlier, and was defending his championship for the 16th time against an opponent who was only 16-7, with three knockout losses, and who had just turned 30 while competing in a division which places a premium on youth. Gushiken was also defending his title in Japan. He never had any difficulties making the 108 pound divisional limit, and this was expected to be a routine defense against a challenger he had floored in their previous encounter. Gushiken always did better in rematches. Instead, Flores stunned the Japanese audience with a 198 punch barrage in round 12, and stopped Gushiken in the 13th. Fierce Eagle never flew again, and Flores never won another match.

7---Ritchie Sandoval/Jeff Chandler. After just two amateur bouts, Joltin' Jeff moved up the ranks quickly as a professional, eventually unifying the USBA and NABF Bantamweight Titles. With his upset of previously undefeated Julian Solis for the WBA Bantamweight Championship, he became the first American to hold that title since the legendary Manuel Ortiz lost it to Vic Toweel over 30 years before, and established himself as a popular fixture on American television. Since drawing in his pro debut, he'd sustained only two blemishes on his record; a title fight draw against undefeated Eijiro Murata in Murata's Japan, and a non-title split decision loss to Oscar Muniz in Atlantic City. Both blemishes were avenged with title fight kayos. Something of a physical marvel with a high metabolism, Jeff never had any trouble making weight for any of his defenses. Only 27 years old, he had already punched his ticket to enshrinement in the future IBHOF. Undefeated and exciting prospect Ritchie Sandoval was 22-0, but wasn't expected to seriously challenge Chandler for his title. However, just as Flores had done to Gushiken three years earlier, Sandoval stunned Chandler, dropping Jeff for the first time in his career, and stopping him in 15. Like Gushiken, Chandler never fought again.

Who knows, perhaps if Gushiken and Chandler had continued their winning ways, they might have eventually collided in an international superfight, but we never got a chance to find out.

8---Michael Spinks/Larry Holmes I. Larry had easily blown out Mike's big brother Leon, and while Mike was an unknown quantity at heavyweight, he was attempting boxing's equivalent of the four minute mile against the heavyweight division's reigning champion for eight years running, the second HW titlist to post 20 successful defenses of the crown, and an undefeated boxer aiming to make history himself by matching Rocky Marciano at 49-0. Mike upset the apple cart, and blazed the trail that let Evander Holyfield, RJJ, and James Toney know such an achievement was indeed possible.

9---Leon Spinks/Muhammad Ali I. Leon was the least skilled member of the 1976 U.S. Olympic boxing team, yet with heart and determination he managed a massive upset win over the lethal Cuban Sixto Soria, dropping and stopping him to take home a gold medal. His professional career had been nothing to write home about however, especially with a draw on neutral territory to Scott LeDoux. Ali was clearly in decline, but he was coming off a decent performance against deadly Earnie Shavers, a contest which saw Ali nearly take Shavers out in the final round. Leon was the least experienced challenger for the HW Title since Pete Rademacher debuted against Patterson, and he was the first sub 200 pounder to fight for the big prize since Foreman blew out hapless King Roman in one round in Tokyo. Carrying out Sam Solomon's instructions to the letter, Leon pounded away at Ali's arms when Muhammad leaned back against the ropes, slice through his guard with uppercuts, and managed to withstand Ali's late surge to pull off the split decison upset.

10---Duran/Barkley. The Blade had bombed out the man who dumped Duran flat on his face five years earlier. But the 38 year old Duran got himself down to the lowest weight he'd been at since that disastrous evening against Hearns, and dropped Barkley en route to a title winning effort, despite what may have been the greatest performance of Barkley's career! His triumphal masterpiece prompted Ray Arcel to suggest, "I think he may know more about boxing than I do."
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:43 PM   #27
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

What odds was Kirkland Laing against Dooran
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:45 PM   #28
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Ali Liston is over rated as a upset. Liston was not even in shape for the fight.
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Old 07-29-2007, 03:17 PM   #29
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
Ali Liston is over rated as a upset. Liston was not even in shape for the fight.
It makes perfect sense only in hindsight. Before the fact, that outcome was almost completely unforseeable, given the immediately preceding history of both.
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Old 07-29-2007, 03:21 PM   #30
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Default Re: what where the 10 greatest upsets in boxing history?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi1985
It wasn´t a real surprise under the real experts. Sullivan was in overweight and old, Corbett on the other side was skills-wise 2 leagues above and young and hungry...


but I agree, in general a big upset...
A huge upset, and you are using a lot of hindsight. Like the myth of invincibilty that surrounded a Liston, Foreman or Tyson, few could see the truth. Even legitmate scholars of the sport saw Sullivan winning.
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