What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may be.

DINAMITA · 08-28-2008, 01:59 PM

Carlos Monzon lost 3 of his 1st 19 fights (not stopped in any of them), all in South America.

He never lost again in the next 81 fights, so he never lost once in his world title fight career.

World middleweight champion for 7 years, posting wins over the likes of Nino Benvenuti, Emile Griffith, and Jose Angel Napoles.

I don't claim to be a Monzon expert, I've only seen a couple of his fights, so this thread is more of a call for opinion than a proclamation of his greatness, but I just think that Monzon is never spoken of the way he should be.

How many times have you read people listing "Robinson, Ali, Leonard, Whitaker" etc, with no mention of Monzon? I think he definitely deserves to be spoken of in this company. Do you think he is a top 10-20 p4p of all-time??

enquirer · 08-28-2008, 02:07 PM

Best 160 man of all times. One of the better championship reigns of any fighter. A p4p atg. Could arguably be top ten p4p...Criminally excluded from p4p lists....If american would be the uncontested consensus no1 160 man....

natonic · 08-28-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enquirer

Best 160 man of all times. One of the better championship reigns of any fighter. A p4p atg. Could arguably be top ten p4p...Criminally excluded from p4p lists....If american would be the uncontested consensus no1 160 man....

Amen

salsanchezfan · 08-28-2008, 03:02 PM

................Monzon's exploits are lauded here quite a bit actually. I would say the concensus considers him the best at 160. On ESB anyway, and provided one stays out of the sandbox known as the General Forum.

Minotauro · 08-28-2008, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enquirer

Best 160 man of all times. One of the better championship reigns of any fighter. A p4p atg. Could arguably be top ten p4p...Criminally excluded from p4p lists....If american would be the uncontested consensus no1 160 man....

Monzon is an all time great I have him at 2 at 160. But you think if he was American he would rated higher then Greb? I doubt it Greb has one if not the best resume in boxing I don't think a change of nationality would make another fighter rank above him.

red cobra · 08-28-2008, 03:11 PM

The greatest middle of all time, and IMO, one of the greatest fighters of all time, period. His record speaks for itself, fought all the best, all the ones who were supposed to beat him, he avenged his 3 defeats, all decisions, BTW, had the answer for every opponent's style, and left the fight game as undefeated middle champion, I guess that's for starters, except to say that his style was a triumph of technical skill, ring brains and toughness over the flashier sort of superficial gifts that soon desert a fighter and leave him stranded a victim of a truly great fighter, like Monzon was. A real legend if there ever was one.

red cobra · 08-28-2008, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natonic

Amen

Another Amen. I see many of these so called p4p lists and think they're just jokes by uninformed beginner boxing fans.

Sweet Pea · 08-28-2008, 03:18 PM

Yep. Most, including myself, think very highly of him here.

A Rock · 08-28-2008, 03:20 PM

all around sick fighter

Thread Stealer · 08-28-2008, 03:20 PM

I think as a whole, Monzon is recognized for how great he is.

People here recognize him as one of, if not THE, greatest middleweight ever. Ring Magazine ranked him as the 3rd greatest middleweight ever, and had him #11 on their top 80 of the last 80 years list.

When people do mythical matchups between him and Hagler, it's usually fairly even or in favor of Monzon. Same with him and Hopkins.

enquirer · 08-28-2008, 03:22 PM

The greb case is unclear. His resume makes him a terrific contendor for no1 p4p of them all,never mind just 160. However,the lack of footage and carlos' stylistic advantages over greb make me think carlos is better as a purely 160 man. I can genuinely see carlos beating every great 160 man in history over 15,i cant say the same with greb.....

enquirer · 08-28-2008, 03:22 PM

Delete.

Sweet Pea · 08-28-2008, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enquirer

The greb case is unclear. His resume makes him a terrific contendor for no1 p4p of them all,never mind just 160. However,the lack of footage and carlos' stylistic advantages over greb make me think carlos is better as a purely 160 man. I can genuinely see carlos beating every great 160 man in history over 15,i cant say the same with greb.....

Monzon certainly has no style advantage over Greb based on what we know of him. There is no basis for that. In fact, considering Greb's ability to have beaten most of the bigger, taller boxers of his era, I'd say it's the exact opposite.

Either way, I rank Greb well higher P4P based on resume, Monzon probably #1 at MW.

he grant · 08-28-2008, 03:30 PM

Greb lacks footage but Monzon lacks anywhere near the quality of opposition that we know Greb fought ...

Love Carlos and he is a top five but number one is a reach.

enquirer · 08-28-2008, 03:31 PM

Speaking purely at 160,monzon had a great style,relaxed,persistent and methodical. He had good size,height and reach for a middle. Great strength,stamina,great long range and short range game and very good power. Greb was smaller,less powerful and didnt seem to be the ring general carlos was. Carlos has the size and style to beat hagler,robinson hopkins et al,does greb? I feel greb could be outboxed wheras carlos wouldnt be over 15.
Also,just because hearns achieved much more than hagler above 160 doesnt make him the better man at 160 stylistically or otherwise...Hope this analogy is digested and understood......

08-28-2008, 01:59 PM	#1
DINAMITA Thank You And Goodbye! East Side VIP Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Past Posts: 10,238 vCash: 1000	What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may be. Carlos Monzon lost 3 of his 1st 19 fights (not stopped in any of them), all in South America. He never lost again in the next 81 fights, so he never lost once in his world title fight career. World middleweight champion for 7 years, posting wins over the likes of Nino Benvenuti, Emile Griffith, and Jose Angel Napoles. I don't claim to be a Monzon expert, I've only seen a couple of his fights, so this thread is more of a call for opinion than a proclamation of his greatness, but I just think that Monzon is never spoken of the way he should be. How many times have you read people listing "Robinson, Ali, Leonard, Whitaker" etc, with no mention of Monzon? I think he definitely deserves to be spoken of in this company. Do you think he is a top 10-20 p4p of all-time??
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08-28-2008, 02:07 PM	#2
enquirer Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,179 vCash: 1000	Re: What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may be. Best 160 man of all times. One of the better championship reigns of any fighter. A p4p atg. Could arguably be top ten p4p...Criminally excluded from p4p lists....If american would be the uncontested consensus no1 160 man....
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08-28-2008, 03:02 PM	#4
salsanchezfan Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 6,895 vCash: 1000	Re: What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may be. ................Monzon's exploits are lauded here quite a bit actually. I would say the concensus considers him the best at 160. On ESB anyway, and provided one stays out of the sandbox known as the General Forum.
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08-28-2008, 03:11 PM	#6
red cobra P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: The Sea of Tranquility Posts: 22,236 vCash: 1000	Re: What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may The greatest middle of all time, and IMO, one of the greatest fighters of all time, period. His record speaks for itself, fought all the best, all the ones who were supposed to beat him, he avenged his 3 defeats, all decisions, BTW, had the answer for every opponent's style, and left the fight game as undefeated middle champion, I guess that's for starters, except to say that his style was a triumph of technical skill, ring brains and toughness over the flashier sort of superficial gifts that soon desert a fighter and leave him stranded a victim of a truly great fighter, like Monzon was. A real legend if there ever was one.
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08-28-2008, 03:18 PM	#8
Sweet Pea P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: I never sleep, cuz sleep is the cousin of death Posts: 16,432 vCash: 1000	Re: What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may be. Yep. Most, including myself, think very highly of him here.
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08-28-2008, 03:20 PM	#9
A Rock SAMUEL ETO'O!!!!! ESB Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Long Beach, California Posts: 894 vCash: 1000	Re: What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may be. all around sick fighter
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08-28-2008, 03:20 PM	#10
Thread Stealer P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 17,103 vCash: 1000	Re: What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may be. I think as a whole, Monzon is recognized for how great he is. People here recognize him as one of, if not THE, greatest middleweight ever. Ring Magazine ranked him as the 3rd greatest middleweight ever, and had him #11 on their top 80 of the last 80 years list. When people do mythical matchups between him and Hagler, it's usually fairly even or in favor of Monzon. Same with him and Hopkins.
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08-28-2008, 03:22 PM	#11
enquirer Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,179 vCash: 1000	Re: What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may be. The greb case is unclear. His resume makes him a terrific contendor for no1 p4p of them all,never mind just 160. However,the lack of footage and carlos' stylistic advantages over greb make me think carlos is better as a purely 160 man. I can genuinely see carlos beating every great 160 man in history over 15,i cant say the same with greb.....
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08-28-2008, 03:30 PM	#14
he grant Historian/Film Maker East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 6,480 vCash: 1000	Re: What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may be. Greb lacks footage but Monzon lacks anywhere near the quality of opposition that we know Greb fought ... Love Carlos and he is a top five but number one is a reach.
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08-28-2008, 03:31 PM	#15
enquirer Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,179 vCash: 1000	Re: What do people think of CARLOS MONZON? I've just discovered how underrated he may be. Speaking purely at 160,monzon had a great style,relaxed,persistent and methodical. He had good size,height and reach for a middle. Great strength,stamina,great long range and short range game and very good power. Greb was smaller,less powerful and didnt seem to be the ring general carlos was. Carlos has the size and style to beat hagler,robinson hopkins et al,does greb? I feel greb could be outboxed wheras carlos wouldnt be over 15. Also,just because hearns achieved much more than hagler above 160 doesnt make him the better man at 160 stylistically or otherwise...Hope this analogy is digested and understood......
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