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Old 03-27-2012, 12:48 PM   #16
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

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Originally Posted by Bill Butcher View Post
1stly - Im a fan of both & have no bias either way as I still havent decided who I like best.
I can happily watch SRL/Duran I & enjoy vintage Duran without that bitter taste that comes watching 1 of your favourites get beat BUT the same goes for the SRL/Duran II fight except vice versa.

Duran is easily 1 of the most loved fighters in history & I personally wish the `no mas` thing never happened as it tarnishes his legacy ever so slightly, I thought he fought a good fight in that 2nd fight but IMO this was Leonard at his absolute peak, even better than the Benitez, Hearns & Hagler fights & it didnt matter which Duran showed up that night as nobody was beating Leonard.

I hear stories about Duran being out of shape etc... I know that Roberto was in better shape in montreal than in new orleans (he`s never looked better than in montreal IMO) but I thought he looked in good shape in the rematch & certainly wasnt losing big when he quit, he was doing his thing, its just that SRL was doing his a little more effectively.

If Duran had stuck in there until the end then Leonard would have won a UD but the fight was shaping up as 1 of the best of all time IMO because of the great clash of styles, great fight, bad ending, worthy winner.
SRL was, fast, sharp, strong & feet to die for that night.

No version of Duran beats Leonard that night, in fact maybe only Robinson in welterweight history could have done.

Possibly, but there is probably always going to be more than what is known in that affair.But Ray was on his way to a UD, sad that Roberto had to quit.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:25 PM   #17
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Duran was probably the best boxer in the world when leonard made him quit.

I think he in particular deserves more credit that he receives imo.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Tbh, I'm sick of hearing 'Leonard fought Duran's fight' in Montreal. It completely neglects the idea that maybe, just maybe, Duran was good enough to draw him into a brawl.

I think no Mas says more about Duran's fitness than Leonard's brilliance (he was better vs Benetiz as people have already said).
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:53 PM   #19
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Leonard fought a smart fight. Getting the rematch quickly was the key for him. He deserves credit for winning the fight doing what he had to do.

Other than that no.

As far as Leonard being unbeatable that night, No Duran was actually pretty close on the cards. Roberto was listless compared to Montreal and he still managed to take some rounds early in New Orleans.

It was Duran`s fault for being so stupid between fights. He shouldve known better at that point but with that said the Montreal version of Duran puts Leonard through the ringer every single time.
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Old 03-27-2012, 01:56 PM   #20
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

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Tbh, I'm sick of hearing 'Leonard fought Duran's fight' in Montreal. It completely neglects the idea that maybe, just maybe, Duran was good enough to draw him into a brawl.

I think no Mas says more about Duran's fitness than Leonard's brilliance (he was better vs Benetiz as people have already said).


Ray wouldve had trouble trying to move against that version of Duran. The way he was cutting off the ring. With his energy and his intensity it mightve been worse had Leonard ran. Wouldve given Hands of Stone even more forward momentum.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:12 PM   #21
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Wasn't the rematch a full five months after the first?
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:22 PM   #22
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

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Wasn't the rematch a full five months after the first?
4 to 5 months. June of 80 to Nov of 80.

As I stated before Ray Leonard was smart to get an immediate return bout. There was debate in his camp as to whether they should fight a tuneup bout which in turn wouldve given Duran a chance to get his weight down in a healthier way. Duran may have been able to fight a non title bout and get his himself back down in sniffing distance of his fighting weight.

100% Duran`s fault for going that crazy between fights but he had gotten away with it for most ofh is career. He shouldve known better.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

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Wasn't the rematch a full five months after the first?
Come on Luf, you're better than that
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Yeah so not what i'd call a particularly quick rematch.

Duran pushed leonard's shit in first time round. Leonard pushed it back in the rematch.
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

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Yeah so not what i'd call a particularly quick rematch.
For a guy {Duran} who was known to gain extreme amounts of weight between fights it is. Duran`s habits were no secret by that time in his career. That was definitley a huge key for Leonard. He`s stated this a few times himself.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

when you consider that Duran dropped a good 40 + pounds, ten in the last three days alone, it's no wonder that he lost. He just wasnt in shape otherwise we wouldve seen a repeat of the first fight

Wins over Pryor, Curry, & Nunn wouldve made a believer out of me
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

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when you consider that Duran dropped a good 40 + pounds, ten in the last three days alone, it's no wonder that he lost. He just wasnt in shape otherwise we wouldve seen a repeat of the first fight

Wins over Pryor, Curry, & Nunn wouldve made a believer out of me
Wins over duran, hearns and hagler not good enough
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:47 PM   #28
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

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There is a lot of debate about whether one man lost the fight or the other man won in their first 2 fights. Personally, I feel that Duran won the first fight more than Leonard lost it because more often than not SRL fought flat-footed and quite often in the pocket as he did with Duran, but I feel Duran lost the 2nd more than Leonard won it. I agree that SRL would have won a clear-cut but still pretty close decision over Duran because he was not outclassing Roberto by any means, and it's conceiveable that even the Duran of Montreal, as good as he ever was and as prepared and fired up as he ever was, could potentially have been beaten by the SRL of the 2nd fight.

Leonard deserves credit, no doubt, but as I said, I feel Duran lost it more than Leonard won it. The fire just wasn't there even before the bell rang, he looked flat compared to himself just a few monthes earlier. Duran didn't have the same motivation because he had already accomplished what he percieved to be the ultimate goal of beating Leonard, it is known that he partied way too much after the first fight and had to lose a lot of weight, and I think that part of his reason for quitting was that since he gave Leonard a rematch, he felt SRL would give him one also where he could come in better prepared.

Leonard looked very good (though not the best I've ever seen him overall), but it doesn't really come close to Duran's win in the first fight when talking about how impressive each feat was IMO.
Woah now.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:21 PM   #29
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

I can barely remember making this thread

I still agree with the TS opening post
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:06 PM   #30
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Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

I agree. I think he fought the way he should and outclassed Duran. Which Benitez then used that same blueprint (around his style) and beat Duran easily again.
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