Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-27-2012, 07:48 PM   #31
LittleRed
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Yoknapatawpha
Posts: 3,216
vCash: 475
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

He beat Duran but I think outclassed is a bit strong. It's not like Leonard won every round or put on a Jones-Toney butt kicking. In fact what makes the fight so immersing is that Duran quitting is almost inexplicable both at the time and in retrospect.
LittleRed is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-28-2012, 09:54 AM   #32
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,509
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Wins over duran, hearns and hagler not good enough
I dont't understand why Leonard fans are so resistant to the thought of Leonard facing off with a few more credible opponents, especially since we found out that Hagler was effectively a defective & unoperable fighter in his last fight

look at all the name fighters Ali took on then compare them with with few from Leonard's era.

Ali's faced all the top names of his era including Liston, Patterson, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Bob Foster, Joe Bugner, Lyle, Young, Holmes, Berbick

Leonard did NOT do the same. If Leonard had Ali's heart we would have seen SRL-Pryor 1983 and Hagler-srl no later than the fall of 1983/early 84. Wouldve seen SRL-Curry 1985, SRL Honeyghan 1986, SRL McCallum 1987 and the big finale Nunn-srl 1989
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 10:52 AM   #33
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,612
vCash: 330
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
I dont't understand why Leonard fans are so resistant to the thought of Leonard facing off with a few more credible opponents, especially since we found out that Hagler was effectively a defective & unoperable fighter in his last fight

look at all the name fighters Ali took on then compare them with with few from Leonard's era.

Ali's faced all the top names of his era including Liston, Patterson, Quarry, Bonavena, Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Bob Foster, Joe Bugner, Lyle, Young, Holmes, Berbick

Leonard did NOT do the same. If Leonard had Ali's heart we would have seen SRL-Pryor 1983 and Hagler-srl no later than the fall of 1983/early 84. Wouldve seen SRL-Curry 1985, SRL Honeyghan 1986, SRL McCallum 1987 and the big finale Nunn-srl 1989
I'm not a fan and i'm not resistant. He had no meaningful victories after hagler, I just found your particular post amusing.

Well ofcourse, that's why ali is much greater than leonard in my opinion.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #34
KuRuPT
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Are the excuses about Leonard fighting Duran's fight still coming up again? Jesus. SRL and his camp said EXACTLY what they were going to do to Duran. They didn't want him backing up and they were going to stand there ground because they believed they had the BIGGER, STRONGER and FASTER fighter and that would be the difference. It wasn't. Stop with this nonsense about SRL fighting Duran's fight and that is why he lost. SRL fought more times like he did against Duran 1 then he didi like duran 2.

Lastly, Duran was clearly not the same as Montreal and I don't know how that can't be factored in or not seen. SRL knew this and talked about it many times. He knew Duran would blow up in between fights (ESPECIALLY after a great victory like that) and he wanted the rematch quickly to take advantage of that. Duran had already beaten SRL so that drive to accomplish something great was already done. SRL deserves credit sure, but one of his best performances.. nah.
KuRuPT is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 04:34 PM   #35
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,612
vCash: 330
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Regarding duran's shape, if a man in his prime cannot motivate himself to turn up in prime condition, i've no sympathy whatsoever.

Duran deserves all the stick he gets.

Leonard didn't beat a peak duran but he certainly beat the prime out of him.

How much credit should leonard get? Well he made the best boxer in the world quit on his stool. Maybe it left a bad taste in people's mouths seeing what the legend had sunk too but duran has to take the blame for quitting.

How much credit you want to give is up to you, sure he didn't beat the very best version of duran, but he beat duran during his very best years.

In a fantasy fight i'd actually favour duran, hearns and hagler to beat leonard but their respective career's show that all lost to sugar ray and he does deserve a lot of credit in my honest opinion. Not a top ten guy but top thirty none the less.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 06:26 PM   #36
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,509
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Regarding duran's shape, if a man in his prime cannot motivate himself to turn up in prime condition, i've no sympathy whatsoever.

Duran deserves all the stick he gets.

Leonard didn't beat a peak duran but he certainly beat the prime out of him.

How much credit should leonard get? Well he made the best boxer in the world quit on his stool. Maybe it left a bad taste in people's mouths seeing what the legend had sunk too but duran has to take the blame for quitting.

How much credit you want to give is up to you, sure he didn't beat the very best version of duran, but he beat duran during his very best years.

In a fantasy fight i'd actually favour duran, hearns and hagler to beat leonard but their respective career's show that all lost to sugar ray and he does deserve a lot of credit in my honest opinion. Not a top ten guy but top thirty none the less.
that's not the point. The important thing is that Duran WAS out of shape which was well known to the Leonard camp and the reason for the renewed interest in a rematch "if we can just catch him out of shape, he'll be weakened enough'

You know, the usual tactic
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 06:36 PM   #37
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,612
vCash: 330
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
that's not the point. The important thing is that Duran WAS out of shape which was well known to the Leonard camp and the reason for the renewed interest in a rematch "if we can just catch him out of shape, he'll be weakened enough'

You know, the usual tactic
Did duran have the ability and time to get himself into fighting shape for the fight?
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 06:38 PM   #38
Popkins
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 13,401
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

why anyone would dig up a thread topic as dull as this from back in 2008 is beyond me.
Popkins is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 07:57 PM   #39
lora
Fighting Zapata
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,555
vCash: 500
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Popkins View Post
why anyone would dig up a thread topic as dull as this from back in 2008 is beyond me.
That's thinblacks modus operandi.He's been trolling the forum for months with all-time great consistency.The insight he provides when he bumps each thread(about ten every day or two) never ceases to amaze.
lora is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2012, 08:11 PM   #40
cuchulain
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Muirthemne
Posts: 10,517
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Regarding duran's shape, if a man in his prime cannot motivate himself to turn up in prime condition, i've no sympathy whatsoever.

Duran deserves all the stick he gets.

Leonard didn't beat a peak duran but he certainly beat the prime out of him.

How much credit should leonard get? Well he made the best boxer in the world quit on his stool.
Not on his stool.




Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
In a fantasy fight i'd actually favour duran, hearns and hagler to beat leonard but their respective career's show that all lost to sugar ray...

And he lost to two of them, maybe all three.
cuchulain is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 12:22 AM   #41
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,509
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Did duran have the ability and time to get himself into fighting shape for the fight?
that's not the way Randy Gordon tells it. when you wave 8 million in someone's face and tell them you only got this much time or the deal's off, you have to wonder what's the rush? Does he WANT to catch an out of shape fighter?

I think when you look at the evidence of what happens when the fighter is IN shape (say a Terry Norris) then things dont go as well for him
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 12:25 AM   #42
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,509
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
that's not the way Randy Gordon tells it. when you wave 8 million in someone's face and tell them you only got this much time or the deal's off, you have to wonder what's the rush? Does he WANT to catch an out of shape fighter?

I think when you look at the evidence of what happens when the fighter is IN shape (say a Terry Norris) then things dont go as well for him
That's not to say I think Norris is better than Leonard. Leonard was technically the better fighter. All you have to do is look and compare but head to head, Leonard could never beat him. It's a styles thing and Ray would never be able to stay up with Terry. Terry is just a superior physical athlete who could set a higher pace and take Ray out of his game and no matter how many times they fought Terry's gonna have his hand raised. Believe me, I know. Just take my word for it
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 12:30 AM   #43
MAG1965
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dallas,Texas.
Posts: 17,399
vCash: 1010
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
that's not the way Randy Gordon tells it. when you wave 8 million in someone's face and tell them you only got this much time or the deal's off, you have to wonder what's the rush? Does he WANT to catch an out of shape fighter?

I think when you look at the evidence of what happens when the fighter is IN shape (say a Terry Norris) then things dont go as well for him
most fighters would love to have the excuses Duran had and for people to buy the excuse. Fight the best fighters you ever fought and lose and have a legit excuse everytime. When he fought the best fighters he ever fought he lost and had excuses that he didn't train. Then he fights Luigi Michillo and he trained?
MAG1965 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 03:00 AM   #44
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 22,612
vCash: 330
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
that's not the way Randy Gordon tells it. when you wave 8 million in someone's face and tell them you only got this much time or the deal's off, you have to wonder what's the rush? Does he WANT to catch an out of shape fighter?

I think when you look at the evidence of what happens when the fighter is IN shape (say a Terry Norris) then things dont go as well for him
So how much time did he have to prepare for leonard?
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 12:53 PM   #45
KuRuPT
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,844
vCash: 500
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Luf, I don't understand your argument here....

You're not claiming Duran was in his best shape and I don't think you're even arguing he was in his prime considering he was above his Prime weight and 30.... We know he gained a lot of weight after the first fight and had to lose a lot very close to the fight. Yet...

Are you saying none of that matters and SRL beating duran counts for just as much as if none of the factors above were or are true? I just don't get what you're saying.. you agree he wasn't in his best shape nor at his prime weight.. but those factors don't matter or something? They do, and Leonard should get credit for winning, but the above factors do and should take away from it some. I just don't see any other way around that point.
KuRuPT is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013