boxing
Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-29-2012, 07:51 PM   #46
MAG1965
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dallas,Texas.
Posts: 17,399
vCash: 1010
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuRuPT View Post
Luf, I don't understand your argument here....

You're not claiming Duran was in his best shape and I don't think you're even arguing he was in his prime considering he was above his Prime weight and 30.... We know he gained a lot of weight after the first fight and had to lose a lot very close to the fight. Yet...

Are you saying none of that matters and SRL beating duran counts for just as much as if none of the factors above were or are true? I just don't get what you're saying.. you agree he wasn't in his best shape nor at his prime weight.. but those factors don't matter or something? They do, and Leonard should get credit for winning, but the above factors do and should take away from it some. I just don't see any other way around that point.
I think it counts for just as much. Always did. Duran had one loss before Leonard. He knew what he was doing. Had that been Luigi Minchillo in front of him he would have beaten him. Leonard fought the fight which would always beat Duran. The excuses Duran gets are not allowed with other fighters. And some will say he earned it with his lightweight reign. No one in his lightweight reign was the caliber fighter of Leonard, or Benitez or Hearns or Hagler. And he lost to them all. I give him credit as a great, but the excuses are just excuses. And he had them everytime he lost to a great. He beat the Minchillos but not the Hearns level. And for the Hearns and Benitez level he didn't train. What doesn't seem right. He trains for Minchillo and Moore but not for Heans and Benitez. Well he won the first two and lost againt Hearns and Benitez. he had a great career, but not great enough wins before those guys to says he lost to them because he didn't train. He never really beat that level before. No matter what. Dejesus and Buchanan were not Hearns and Leonard. And Ray beat them all. Ray proved with great fighters more than Duran did, so you have to say he fought the wrong fight, which he did. Ray would not fight Duran on the inside. He said he was trying to prove something. Compare the 1st round in the 1st and second fights.
MAG1965 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 03-29-2012, 08:36 PM   #47
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 23,035
vCash: 75
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuRuPT View Post
Luf, I don't understand your argument here....

You're not claiming Duran was in his best shape and I don't think you're even arguing he was in his prime considering he was above his Prime weight and 30.... We know he gained a lot of weight after the first fight and had to lose a lot very close to the fight. Yet...

Are you saying none of that matters and SRL beating duran counts for just as much as if none of the factors above were or are true? I just don't get what you're saying.. you agree he wasn't in his best shape nor at his prime weight.. but those factors don't matter or something? They do, and Leonard should get credit for winning, but the above factors do and should take away from it some. I just don't see any other way around that point.
That's because I have no argument for you to understand.

I'm asking how long duran had to prepare for the rematch. A question, not an argument.
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 08:43 PM   #48
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,557
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post
most fighters would love to have the excuses Duran had and for people to buy the excuse. Fight the best fighters you ever fought and lose and have a legit excuse everytime. When he fought the best fighters he ever fought he lost and had excuses that he didn't train. Then he fights Luigi Michillo and he trained?
it was an account by Rin correspondent Randy Gordon who was on assignment. WHat's he supposed to do, cover up details that you dont approve of? That's what's goin on in the Trayvon Martin case

but eventually the truth gets out
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 08:45 PM   #49
redrooster
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,557
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
That's because I have no argument for you to understand.

I'm asking how long duran had to prepare for the rematch. A question, not an argument.
for full details check out Randy Gordon's account of Leonard Duran
redrooster is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 08:47 PM   #50
MAG1965
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dallas,Texas.
Posts: 17,399
vCash: 1010
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HynS7Q5MYE[/ame] go to 18:50 of this video and watch for the next minute or two. What did he say? He said he locked in and fought him at his own game. Look at 20:17 "I knew if I fought him my way I would beat him" He proved it. Out of Ray's own mouth.
MAG1965 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 08:49 PM   #51
red cobra
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Sea of Tranquility
Posts: 13,495
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

SRL deserves full credit for the No Mas fight. he made Duran look like a fool...a complete fool. I think he would have won the Montreal fight as well if he had elected to forsake the trench warfare for the same tactics he used in New Orleans. Leonard was brilliant in the No Mas fight.
red cobra is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 08:52 PM   #52
lufcrazy
requiescat in pace
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: England, Up North
Posts: 23,035
vCash: 75
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster View Post
for full details check out Randy Gordon's account of Leonard Duran
How long between fight being signed and first bell ringing?
lufcrazy is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 09:53 PM   #53
MagnaNasakki
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,829
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

It takes more character to train ones ass off and return to avenge a loss confidently and immediately then anything else in boxing, period.

If it doesn't get due credit as a great win, it should be noted as the moment Leonard proved he had just as much heart as a fighter like Duran did.

If Duran undertrained, or whatever, he was a disgrace to his belts that night and deserved to lose, simple as.

They are 1-1, as far as I've always been concerned. Each fighter put it together one night for a win against an opponent who simply didn't execute.

They deserve to have their names mentioned together.
MagnaNasakki is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2012, 09:58 PM   #54
lora
Fighting Zapata
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 4,613
vCash: 500
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Thinblack walks among us like an uncaring onmipotent god casting his pearls to us swine.

Who else could get people talking enthusiastically about such a tired worn out topic that barely got a page worth of replies 4 years ago.
lora is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 02:58 AM   #55
MAG1965
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dallas,Texas.
Posts: 17,399
vCash: 1010
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
It takes more character to train ones ass off and return to avenge a loss confidently and immediately then anything else in boxing, period.

If it doesn't get due credit as a great win, it should be noted as the moment Leonard proved he had just as much heart as a fighter like Duran did.

If Duran undertrained, or whatever, he was a disgrace to his belts that night and deserved to lose, simple as.

They are 1-1, as far as I've always been concerned. Each fighter put it together one night for a win against an opponent who simply didn't execute.

They deserve to have their names mentioned together.
they are 2-1.. Since I payed for a PPV fight between the middlweight champ at the time (Duran) and the supermiddlweight champ (Leonard) for it not to count. Had Duran won in 1989 people would be saying how he proved he was better than Leonard by beating him twice.
Ray wins and Duran is old. Ray wins the second fight and Duran didn't train. Benitez beats Duran and Duran didn't train. Hearns beats Duran and Duran didn't train. Duran beat Moore and Barkley and the greatest wins of all time. There is a pattern here, and the fact is these were his fights against the best and quickest fighters he ever fought.
MAG1965 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 04:41 AM   #56
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Ray Leonard generally gets far more credit for a few big wins than any fighter in history. His best wins are disproportionately weighted in his favour in "all-time ratings" as it is.
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 05:14 AM   #57
MAG1965
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dallas,Texas.
Posts: 17,399
vCash: 1010
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
Ray Leonard generally gets far more credit for a few big wins than any fighter in history. His best wins are disproportionately weighted in his favour in "all-time ratings" as it is.
When you beat great fighters Benitez,Duran,Hearns in 4 fights within 2 years that is pretty impressive. And he beat Kalule. Most people would beat Kalule for the 154 pound title would have that as a big footnote, but it is never mentioned with Ray. He won that title in June of 1981.
MAG1965 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 05:37 AM   #58
Legend X
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: London
Posts: 2,378
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAG1965 View Post
When you beat great fighters Benitez,Duran,Hearns in 4 fights within 2 years that is pretty impressive. And he beat Kalule. Most people would beat Kalule for the 154 pound title would have that as a big footnote, but it is never mentioned with Ray. He won that title in June of 1981.
I'm not saying his achievements are not impressive.
I'm saying that his most impressive wins are stated and re-stated ad naseum, to the point where they are disproportionately rated.

To say he doesn't get enough credit for beating Duran is absurd, because everywhere we look we see "beat Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler".


I'm not sure the Kalule win or the 154 pound title (esp. at that time) are underrated. The division just didn't attract the best fighters until the early 80s. Most world-class fighters ignored light-middle until the 80s.
Legend X is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 07:29 AM   #59
MAG1965
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Dallas,Texas.
Posts: 17,399
vCash: 1010
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend X View Post
I'm not saying his achievements are not impressive.
I'm saying that his most impressive wins are stated and re-stated ad naseum, to the point where they are disproportionately rated.

To say he doesn't get enough credit for beating Duran is absurd, because everywhere we look we see "beat Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler".


I'm not sure the Kalule win or the 154 pound title (esp. at that time) are underrated. The division just didn't attract the best fighters until the early 80s. Most world-class fighters ignored light-middle until the 80s.
good point. It would seem like wins over those guys are not as great as it seems including Hagler when we know Ray only fought 40 times in his career compared to 67 times for both Hagler and Hearns and Duran fought 115 times or so,. But his wins regardless were better than any of the others put together.
MAG1965 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2012, 08:09 AM   #60
Flea Man
มวยสากล
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: @ferociousflea
Posts: 40,367
vCash: 75
Default Re: Leonard deserves more credit for the Duran 2nd fight than he gets

Quote:
Originally Posted by lora View Post
That's thinblacks modus operandi.He's been trolling the forum for months with all-time great consistency.The insight he provides when he bumps each thread(about ten every day or two) never ceases to amaze.
Flea Man is online now  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump






All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2015