Old Timers and the Lineal Championship

[dav8d777]

I love the idea of a "lineal championship". It is certainly easy to say that Shannon Briggs does not belong in the list or to say that Harry Wills does. More importantly though is the fact that the "lineal championship" really is a list and not a spreadsheet.

I know I make myself appear foolish for mixing terms like "logic" with terms like "WBO" but I would like to avoid the debate about the alphabet soup champions and ask another question.

The question is, if Tony Tubbs is included on a list of heavyweight champions then why isn't Paddy Ryan? Before you say, "Hey, Paddy Ryan sucked", I would like to ask why John L. Sullivan is declared the champ after beating Paddy Ryan if Ryan himself was not champ?

I hear someone saying, "well it's the gloves and the overall implementation of the Marquis of Queensbury rules". I answer that by saying there were more significant changes after "Broughton's Rules" took effect than during the MOQ period. When the London Prize Rules fight went into effect no one took Jack Slack's name off of the list of heavyweight champions.

I love the idea of a lineal championship since we now live in such a watered-down world. I think it is a totally different question to ask why Marvin Hart, with gloves, and having never defeated a champion, is included in the list of heavyweight champions while Cribb, Spring and Sayers are not?

If Paddy Ryan was not the heavyweight champion then at exactly what point in time (not questioning his greatness) did John L. Sullivan become the champ?

If there is an afterlife I hope Jack Broughton can get an autograph from James Toney.

Dave

[rekcutnevets]

The Linear Championship is a nice idea, too bad it can't exist the way it sounds. It is a championship for " the man who beat the man who beat the man."

Sometimes, "the man" retires without coming back. Like Gene Tunney. Like Rocky Marciano.

Then you are stuck with waiting for worthy people to fight for the title. If these organizations would rank all fighter, and consider no other champion valid, things would be better. That is why I like the site mentioned in my signature. They may not be the answer, but they seem to be after the answer.

[Dempsey1238]

Ralf Tiger Jones, World Middle Weight Champ after beating Robinson.
lol.

[Dempsey1238]

The thing is if your going to denie Hart and Burns the right to be champ, because Jeff made a come back. Than when Robinson came back and LOST to Jones. That would denie Bolo as champ.(Robinson would regain the belt vs Bolo) But STILL, Jones would walk around with more right to be champ than Robinson lol.

Than Benny Leonard retires, comes back after 7 long years, Than loses to Jimmy McLarin. Wait a movement, that makes McLarin the new lightweight champ lol.

Bob Foster retires as champ, Only to RETURN and lose to Mustafa Wassaja. So Wassaja is the new champ.

[punchy]

It is obvious when a fighter retires he loses his claim to be lineal champion the title of lineal champion then passes to the best fighter out there at the moment. At the moment Wlad is the best HW so despite not winning the title in the ring he is still the Lineal champion.

[punchy]

There has to be a champion.

[TBooze]

Originally Posted by Dempsey1238

Bob Foster retires as champ, Only to RETURN and lose to Mustafa Wassaja. So Wassaja is the new champ.

Foster always weighed more than 175 post 1974, so no Wassaja could not be considered Light Heavyweight Champion of the World.

[punchy]

Originally Posted by azim

You´r right Wlad isn´t the champ but imo it would make things easier and clearer if the universally recognized best man of a division would be called the champ even without winning the linear title or unifying.

It has to be that way someone has to be lineal champ unless Lewis makes a return.