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Old 07-29-2007, 03:37 PM   #1
ChrisPontius
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Default Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

I just rewatched the Holyfield-Tyson fights and they were truely great fights even with the record-breaking amount of clinches (roughly 15 per round).

Holyfield is usually described as the warrior, known for his heart. And while that's rightful, what caught my attention is his skill. He is truely a master boxer.

Tyson had a significant edge in handspeed, was more powerful and the younger man. Yet Holyfield managed to overcome these disadvantages with pure skill. He blocked almost all left hooks and ducked under most of the right hands. He timed his counters well and even knocked Tyson down with one, in the 6th.

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Holyfield tied Tyson up usually after countering him or ducking his shots. He did it a bit too often and used his head too much for my liking, but its effectiveness cannot be denied. He pushed and shoved Tyson around, occasionaly putting Tyson on the backfoot where he doesn't like to be: great ring generalship.
Evander showed excellent stamina when he hurt Tyson badly in the 10th and scoring a technical knockout one round later.
And to top it off, he no longer made the mistake of slugging it out when hurt. An essential correction to his earlier flawed style which could've certainly cost him against Tyson.




Foreman, on the other hand, i would not call a master boxer. But what he lacks in skill, he makes up for in raw power and strength.

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He did have pretty good footwork, knowing well how to cut off the ring as well as getting into right punching range and when to plant the feet. And while he was pretty crude, his jab was pretty good.
Foreman's stamina (or pacing) was questionable although not many could've made that factor come into play. Frazier and Norton couldn't. Ali psyching Foreman probably also had a thing or two to do with him punching himself out.




Against Holyfield, Foreman would probably come out stalking and occasionally throwing jabs while Holyfield jumps on his toes, throwing double jabs and tries to keep range. At one point, Foreman will open up and whatever happens next will directly or indirectly decide who wins it.
How do you see it going down?
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Old 07-29-2007, 03:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Holyfield.
Too fast, too good defense, too good a chin, too high workrate, too smart.
We know it was alot easier to knock over and knock down George than in his later career.
I think Holyfield takes a TKO11 or a wide UD12
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Old 07-29-2007, 03:43 PM   #3
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Holyfield Grinds him down with his head. Foreman would be out of it by the 9th round.
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Old 07-29-2007, 04:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Foreman is a bit too powerful for Evander. Holyfield wouldnt be able to push around Foreman and tie him up at will like he did with Tyson because Foreman was too strong. Holyfield would definently make a fight out of it, but he would eventually try to trade punches and I could see him hitting the canvas.

Foreman by either mid round KO or close but clear decision.
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:00 PM   #5
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Holyfield was at his best against aggressive fighters. Holyfield is a masterful counter-fighter.

I think Holyfield would beat a 1974 Foreman, possibly as easily as he did with an old Foreman, but the first three or four rounds would be harder.
The young Foreman was more off-balance and definitely more wide open.
Seeing how Ali nailed Foreman with straight shots, lead rights and jabs, and how Lyle countered with the right at will for a while, and how Foreman wobbled even against Jimmy Young, I think Holyfield could pick him apart.

I doubt Holyfield would get reckless and attempt to slug it out stationary with Foreman. He never did with the old George so I guess he wouldn't with a young one.
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Old 07-29-2007, 06:47 PM   #6
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Foreman takes this.

The only thing that I got from the 1991 fight between the two was that George Foreman's size and strength would have always troubled Evander Holyfield. Foreman in 1991 didnt have the youth and work rate but a younger version IMHO would simply overwhelm Evander.

Foreman TKO7
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Old 07-29-2007, 07:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
Holyfield actually has ability, so he utterly destroys foreman.
And Joe Frazier didnt have ability?
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muchmoore
And Joe Frazier didnt have ability?
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:07 PM   #9
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
he had ability, but the chin of bantamweight.
Frazier was stopped by one man his entire career. His chin isn't ATG caliber but it's good and he took a lot of shots against Ali without being dropped.
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Old 07-29-2007, 09:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Holliday
he had ability, but the chin of bantamweight.


A pressure fighter with no chin doesn't get to be Heavyweight champion of the world in the era that Frazier fought in.
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Old 07-29-2007, 11:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

The undefeated, most intimidating Foreman who had just smoked Frazier, Norton, & Roman in a total of 5 rounds would walk out, push Holyfield back against ropes and flail with power shots until they stopped the fight.

Holyfield can't hurt Foreman...Holyfield is a juiced up Lightheavy....and if nice guy Riddick Bowe can put Evander down and beat him, then George at his most "bad ace" is going to hurt Holyfield and not let him off the hook.

Same scenario if Liston fought Holyfileld.

This is my just opinion of course.
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Old 07-30-2007, 02:20 AM   #12
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

I think you have nailed it.

It is important to factor in, as you correctly did, the self-confidence Foreman would have felt coming off that string of demolitions. He would have been on top of the world. Holyfield, as brave as he is, would not be able to handle the fire power.

Foreman would have come out and tried to murder Hoyfield in the ring, and without the refs intervention, he might succeed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhhorn71
The undefeated, most intimidating Foreman who had just smoked Frazier, Norton, & Roman in a total of 5 rounds would walk out, push Holyfield back against ropes and flail with power shots until they stopped the fight.

Holyfield can't hurt Foreman...Holyfield is a juiced up Lightheavy....and if nice guy Riddick Bowe can put Evander down and beat him, then George at his most "bad ace" is going to hurt Holyfield and not let him off the hook.

Same scenario if Liston fought Holyfileld.

This is my just opinion of course.
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Old 07-30-2007, 07:54 AM   #13
ChrisPontius
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longhhorn71
The undefeated, most intimidating Foreman who had just smoked Frazier, Norton, & Roman in a total of 5 rounds would walk out, push Holyfield back against ropes and flail with power shots until they stopped the fight.
Just like he did against Ali?

Quote:
Holyfield can't hurt Foreman...Holyfield is a juiced up Lightheavy....and if nice guy Riddick Bowe can put Evander down and beat him, then George at his most "bad ace" is going to hurt Holyfield and not let him off the hook.
Well the story was that Ali couldn't hurt Foreman either.. and if you think Bowe's a nice guy, then i think it's time to adjust your standards.
Bowe was a complete punk.
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Old 07-30-2007, 01:30 PM   #14
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Foreman takes this his physical strength would be a problem plus he would be throwing a lot more then he did in 91. He would push Evander back and pound away until the ref jumped in, Holyfield had decent defence not great and against a young Foreman you don't want to take any shots clean.

Frazier did not have a chin of a bantamweight that is a ridiculous comment, watch his fights his chin was good like a 7/10 plus he had good recovery and could never be discouraged even when knocked down.
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Old 07-30-2007, 02:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: Foreman (1974) vs Holyfield (1996)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisPontius
I just rewatched the Holyfield-Tyson fights and they were truely great fights even with the record-breaking amount of clinches (roughly 15 per round).

Holyfield is usually described as the warrior, known for his heart. And while that's rightful, what caught my attention is his skill. He is truely a master boxer.

Tyson had a significant edge in handspeed, was more powerful and the younger man. Yet Holyfield managed to overcome these disadvantages with pure skill. He blocked almost all left hooks and ducked under most of the right hands. He timed his counters well and even knocked Tyson down with one, in the 6th.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


Holyfield tied Tyson up usually after countering him or ducking his shots. He did it a bit too often and used his head too much for my liking, but its effectiveness cannot be denied. He pushed and shoved Tyson around, occasionaly putting Tyson on the backfoot where he doesn't like to be: great ring generalship.
Evander showed excellent stamina when he hurt Tyson badly in the 10th and scoring a technical knockout one round later.
And to top it off, he no longer made the mistake of slugging it out when hurt. An essential correction to his earlier flawed style which could've certainly cost him against Tyson.




Foreman, on the other hand, i would not call a master boxer. But what he lacks in skill, he makes up for in raw power and strength.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


He did have pretty good footwork, knowing well how to cut off the ring as well as getting into right punching range and when to plant the feet. And while he was pretty crude, his jab was pretty good.
Foreman's stamina (or pacing) was questionable although not many could've made that factor come into play. Frazier and Norton couldn't. Ali psyching Foreman probably also had a thing or two to do with him punching himself out.




Against Holyfield, Foreman would probably come out stalking and occasionally throwing jabs while Holyfield jumps on his toes, throwing double jabs and tries to keep range. At one point, Foreman will open up and whatever happens next will directly or indirectly decide who wins it.
How do you see it going down?
i see foreman winning. holy was the more skillfull, but he had great trouble vs the truely big heavies.

and holy was just too easily drawn into a slugfest, like vs the much bigger bowe.

that would be his downfall as he gets stopped in eight.
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