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View Poll Results: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?
YES he is. 25 56.82%
NO he isn't. 19 43.18%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-10-2008, 08:35 PM   #31
Robbi
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Your right I forgot Leonard, pop him in above Pep and drop Henry out the top 10
Leonard above Pep? The man only had 40 fights. It wouldn't even matter if 15 of his opponents were all-time greats. Even if he moved up to heavyweight and beat Tyson instead of Hagler in 1987 it wouldn't make a difference. Sorry mate, he wasn't fighting often enough no matter his resume.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:53 PM   #32
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Today it's the 80's, last week it was the 40's, next week it could be the 20's, maybe it could be the 70's, but more than likely it will be the 60's.
What you are doing is transparent, Robbi.

You mentioned my name in a post last week where you implied that I am not impressed enough with Whitaker -and that if he were fighting in the 40s, I'd think better of him. That was false, and I offered you several names of more recent fighters who I very highly regard. In this thread, I (rightfully) criticized the goofy inclusions of Jones and Mayweather, and suddenly the 40s become the 80s.

--Coincidence? I doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbi
Leonard above Pep? The man only had 40 fights. It wouldn't even matter if 15 of his opponents were all-time greats. Even if he moved up to heavyweight and beat Tyson instead of Hagler in 1987 it wouldn't make a difference. Sorry mate, he wasn't fighting often enough no matter his resume.
How silly.

You need to get over your vicarious jealousy of Pep. Somehow I doubt that Whitaker himself would be so hell-bent on minimizing the obvious greatness of Pep -as you do in your strange crusade.
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Old 09-10-2008, 08:59 PM   #33
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Your right I forgot Leonard, pop him in above Pep and drop Henry out the top 10

My argument is simple, P4P is about how fighters compete if they were the same weight and Mayweather comfortably beats Armstrong for my money as does Duran, as does Whitaker

If Armstrong weighed 168 does he beat RJJ? He could well lose every round

I can't see anyone living with a Prime RJJ P4P, including Greb, he'd most likely lose a wide wide UD. And they fought at the same weight so RJJ has to be up there
You're only confusing everyone -including yourself. Why don't you call it "H2H best"? And forget about the how fighters would compete if they were the same weight? That just gets senseless for obvious reasons.

If Greb doesn't beat Jones, then why is he ranked ahead of Jones? Why isn't Jones ranked #1? Where's Whitaker? Where's Tyson?
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

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Originally Posted by Robbi
Leonard above Pep? The man only had 40 fights. It wouldn't even matter if 15 of his opponents were all-time greats. Even if he moved up to heavyweight and beat Tyson instead of Hagler in 1987 it wouldn't make a difference. Sorry mate, he wasn't fighting often enough no matter his resume.
Again its not about how many fights he has or even resume, its about they compete if they are the same size, thats the criteria of P4P.

Now if you want to make a new ratings system based on who had the greatest legacy regardless of weight class, do so but it wouldn't be called P4P

Old Timers get well overrated on these boards for fighting endless dross
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:03 PM   #35
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

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Originally Posted by Stonehands89
You're only confusing everyone -including yourself. Why don't you call it "H2H best"? And forget about the how fighters would compete if they were the same weight? That just gets senseless for obvious reasons.

If Greb doesn't beat Jones, then why is he ranked ahead of Jones? Why isn't Jones ranked #1? Where's Whitaker? Where's Tyson?
I'll copy and paste this because it applys here:

Again its not about how many fights he has or even resume, its about they compete if they are the same size, thats the criteria of P4P.

Now if you want to make a new ratings system based on who had the greatest legacy regardless of weight class, do so but it wouldn't be called P4P

Tyson still has the same flaws P4P that see him getting beat in the later rounds, Whitakers boarderline top10
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Old 09-10-2008, 09:07 PM   #36
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Again its not about how many fights he has or even resume, its about they compete if they are the same size, thats the criteria of P4P.
That doesn't work, dick splash.
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Old 09-11-2008, 03:18 AM   #37
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
My list will be controversal to some having RJJ and Mayweather there, but I use the literal term of P4P - who would be the best of the best if they were the same weight in their primes, combined with how they performed against the best of the best in their respective divisions. So I see RJJ beating Greb at 160-168 and Mayweather beating Armstrong at 130-140

1. SRR
2. Duran
3. Charles
4. Langford
5. Greb
6. RJJ
7. Pepp
8. Mayweather
9. Ali
10. Armstrong
Well, if you go by this criteria a list isnīt worth much because you could put a guy like Pavlik in there and say he would knock out everybody. Itīs just speculation and oppinion. Thatīs why I donīt do lists based ion this criteria or take h2h into account to much speculation.

But going by your criteria I think I could agree with most picks though but I think yoiu underate Armstrong tremendously. Armstrong is the one guy most people think is the most similar to Greb. Greb is ranked very high but Armstrong who fought about the same as him - we donīt know who is better - is not ranked as high, even though we have prove of Armstrongs ability but not of Grebs. Thatīs a bit strange for me.
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Old 09-11-2008, 03:20 AM   #38
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher
Your right I forgot Leonard, pop him in above Pep and drop Henry out the top 10

My argument is simple, P4P is about how fighters compete if they were the same weight and Mayweather comfortably beats Armstrong for my money as does Duran, as does Whitaker

If Armstrong weighed 168 does he beat RJJ? He could well lose every round

I can't see anyone living with a Prime RJJ P4P, including Greb, he'd most likely lose a wide wide UD. And they fought at the same weight so RJJ has to be up there
Actually, I think Armstrong has a good chance against Whitaker and Duran and would beat RJJ, like Greb, at 168. In my oppinion you are overrating Jones very much. He was good but not that good.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:25 AM   #39
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

#4.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:32 AM   #40
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

Langford
Greb
Robinson
Armstrong
B. Leonard

So, no Charles.
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Old 09-11-2008, 04:55 AM   #41
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

Anyone ever read "Notes From the Underground"? Seems like some are living it out right here...

Charles is definite top 10. I have in my top 5. But top 10 for sure.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:13 AM   #42
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loewe
Actually, I think Armstrong has a good chance against Whitaker and Duran and would beat RJJ, like Greb, at 168. In my oppinion you are overrating Jones very much. He was good but not that good.
Those guys would all be poison for Armstrong.
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Old 09-11-2008, 06:26 AM   #43
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

I voted NO because I havent seen enough of him.
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:19 AM   #44
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

I think Armstrong would give a great account of himself vs Duran and Whitaker, and any other 135 in history to be honest. The man was a machine. He wouldn't give Whitaker a seconds respite or room, it'd be fascinating to see how the match developed and how Whitaker dealt with the constant blitz.
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Old 09-11-2008, 07:27 AM   #45
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Default Re: Is Ezzard Charles in your top 5 pound-for-pound of all-time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I think Armstrong would give a great account of himself vs Duran and Whitaker, and any other 135 in history to be honest. The man was a machine. He wouldn't give Whitaker a seconds respite or room, it'd be fascinating to see how the match developed and how Whitaker dealt with the constant blitz.

Well said, I do too. Armstrong was a force of nature, P4P wise he's tops in my view. Duran and Whitaker could certainly lose maybe once if they were to face of against Armstrong in a trilogy. I've rarely ever seen a busier fighter from any weight class.

Needless to say Mayweather Jr would be toast.
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