classic forum peeps come quick!!!

[Vantage_West]

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there is a thread of holmes vs wlad...and for some reason wlad is getting the typical" vlad has so many tools and would simply out gun holmes wlad by 5th round ko

help larry in his struggle please

[Dostoevsky]

Larry got outboxed by Carl Williams/Snipes/Witherspoon. He got outbombed by Weaver and Norton. He had to gut these fights out.
Facing someone far heavier,taller and probably just as talented (if not more) than those aforementioned guys, I see Wladimir giving Larry hell.
Larry wouldn't be able to knockout Wlad, so I see Wlad outboxing Larry for the UD12.

Originally Posted by Vantage_West

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there is a thread of holmes vs wlad...and for some reason wlad is getting the typical" vlad has so many tools and would simply out gun holmes wlad by 5th round ko

help larry in his struggle please

I noticed the other day that classic forum peeps have been infected by the same Wlad-nuthugging that goes on in other parts of ESB forums.

People in this section were barely picking Ali over Wlad the other day.

The tide has turned I'm afraid. Most people here probably have Wlad in the top 20 heavyweights of all-time, many think he's top 15.
I dont know how and when it happened.
Was only a matter of time I guess. ESB sucks Klitschko balls since day one.

Originally Posted by tobkhan

Nah, nobody on the classic section has Wlad in his top20 or top15. But that Wlad has a good chance against Ali is obvious to everybody who tries to be objective.

I must have missed something.
Being objective I'd say Wlad has a slim chance against Ali.

[salsanchezfan]

All right...........I took care of it. All the General Forum kids have been sent to their room.

Originally Posted by tobkhan

Obviously you aren´t understanding the meaning of beeing objective

Why ?
I think Wlad has little chance of beating Muhammad Ali.
Wlad's a good fighter but I dont watch him and think he looks like a great one.
Muhammad Ali obviously was a great one.

The only people who beat Ali near his prime were Joe Frazier and Ken Norton. The fights were close. There are no similarities in the way these men fought as to the way Wlad fights.

Wlad's beaten men who just dont stack up with Ali or with many of the men Ali beat. Wlad looks about on the level with many of the fighters Ali beat, and he's vulnerable, he's been stopped 3 times. Ali was virtually impossible to stop.

From every angle, looking at it objectively, any reasonable person would make Ali a strong favourite.
The facts are the facts.

[ChrisPontius]

Originally Posted by Sonny's jab

The facts are the facts.

No, these are merely opinions and they will always remain opinions.

Fact is that Wlad has superior handspeed to just about every of Ali's opponent with a few exceptions, Frazier, Patterson and a few others. He has power as good any of them with the only exception being Foreman and Shavers. But he has better handspeed and delivery than both of them. He has more size than any of his opponents.
He has a great, fast heavy jab and Ali has been troubled by good jabs.

Wlad's weaknesses are power punchers and pressure fighters. Ali and Holmes are the complete opposite of that. You said Wlad's vurnerable. Well guess what, so is Ken Norton but he gave Ali problems that he never solved in 45 rounds.
Holmes is somewhat susceptible to straight right hands and Wladimir has one of the best of the past thirty years. Only Lewis' straight right hand was better and even that's close. Janitor made the rightful point that Holmes always struggled against the better fighters he faced (Norton, Witherspoon, Weaver, Williams). Are those fighters really that much better than Wlad?


I favor Ali over Wlad and i think Holmes/Wlad is a tossup. Both are lightyears greater than Wlad.
But to say that Wlad has only a slim chance against either is selling Wlad short, i think. Wlad has very good stylistic matchup against either of them.

Originally Posted by ChrisPontius

No, these are merely opinions and they will always remain opinions.

And so then are most of the following statements in your post :

Fact is that Wlad has superior handspeed to just about every of Ali's opponent with a few exceptions, Frazier, Patterson and a few others. He has power as good any of them with the only exception being Foreman and Shavers. But he has better handspeed and delivery than both of them. He has more size than any of his opponents.
He has a great, fast heavy jab and Ali has been troubled by good jabs.

Wlad's weaknesses are power punchers and pressure fighters. Ali and Holmes are the complete opposite of that. You said Wlad's vurnerable. Well guess what, so is Ken Norton but he gave Ali problems that he never solved in 45 rounds.
Holmes is somewhat susceptible to straight right hands and Wladimir has one of the best of the past thirty years. Only Lewis' straight right hand was better and even that's close. Janitor made the rightful point that Holmes always struggled against the better fighters he faced (Norton, Witherspoon, Weaver, Williams). Are those fighters really that much better than Wlad?


I favor Ali over Wlad and i think Holmes/Wlad is a tossup. Both are lightyears greater than Wlad.
But to say that Wlad has only a slim chance against either is selling Wlad short, i think. Wlad has very good stylistic matchup against either of them.

I'm not saying Ali would make it look easy, but I'd strongly favour him to win.
Wlad is a big target with relatively slow feet and a stand-up style. For all his strengths (the speed, power, arsenal etc.) I dont see him getting the better of Ali.

It's all very well saying Ali "stuggled with X" and "Y gave him trouble" but he never lost to anyone who fought in a stand-up style near his prime. I dont see him losing to someone as orthodox as Wlad, esp. if I think Ali had more of that intangible greatness quality.

Ali "struggled" with Ron Lyle but I'd make him a favourite over Lyle every day of the week.

If Wlad had a Norton-eque style I'd see an argument, but a stand-up 6'6 fighter is there to be figured out by Ali in a 12 or 15 round fight, and when I factored in their PROVEN abilities and the quality of greatness that Ali possessed then I dont see how my claims that Ali should be a strong favourite are in any way less than objective.

Fights aren't always won it effortless fashion but the great fighters have a knack of always winning against the slightly less great, unless they happen to meet a fighter who has a esp. awkward style for them. Wlad's style is nothing Ali wouldn't basically figure out in jig-time, IMO, and while I can see Wlad proving himself deserving of sharing the ring and competing with Ali I would give him little chance of producing a "win" result.
We're talking about Ali at his best, no less.

[Duodenum]

Originally Posted by Vantage_West

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

there is a thread of holmes vs wlad...and for some reason wlad is getting the typical" vlad has so many tools and would simply out gun holmes wlad by 5th round ko

help larry in his struggle please

Okay VW, I've held my breath, done my duty, and clambered back out of the cesspool into the clean fresh healthy air of the Classic Forum. (Please don't send me back into that sewer. No civilized human should be subjected to the horrible sights I confronted in there!)