Miguel Cotto v Kostya Tszyu

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by MSTR

It was close but Cotto had won almost every round on the judges cards. He was landing the better harder punches and doing more damage. Abdulaev had very bad swelling, as happens to fighters that hold there gloves high and are content to take full force shots on them. Abdulaev could stil be very dangerous for anyone in the division IMO.

I think it's more a matter of genetics, Winky has a very similar guard and takes big shots on it, but he doesn't swell up anywhere near as badly. I'd have to look at the fight again but I recall giving a few rounds to Abdullaev in there somewhere.

[MSTR]

Originally Posted by Dekkers

I think it's more a matter of genetics, Winky has a very similar guard and takes big shots on it, but he doesn't swell up anywhere near as badly. I'd have to look at the fight again but I recall giving a few rounds to Abdullaev in there somewhere.

I had Cotto winning pretty much every round. The judges cards had it 79-73 for Cotto in the ninth round, so he must have won a couple but Cotto had a decent lead. I think Winky has taken damage before. Against Soliman his head was swollen and Soliman isn't close to being the puncher that Cotto is.

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by MSTR

I had Cotto winning pretty much every round. The judges cards had it 79-73 for Cotto in the ninth round, so he must have won a couple but Cotto had a decent lead. I think Winky has taken damage before. Against Soliman his head was swollen and Soliman isn't close to being the puncher that Cotto is.

There's a difference between swelling (which most fighters get), and swelling that starts to obscure your vision. Abdullaev has those higher cheekbones, so it's just a fact of life in the pro ranks that didn't matter in the ams.

I remember thinking the judges were a little off with their cards, and we both know that happens often in this sport (Demetrius Hopkins immediately comes to mind). I remember a very tight fight, where Cotto came on past the mid rounds due to Abdullaevs' swelling. Boxa01 will hopefully get a hold of the fight so we can get a third opinion

[Thriller]

cotto's chin wouldent hold up to KT power full stop.

[MSTR]

Originally Posted by Thriller

cotto's chin wouldent hold up to KT power full stop.

Neither would Ricky Hattons before there fight either and we all know what happened there. Cotto can negate his power by closing the distance which I am sure he would attempt to do.

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by MSTR

Neither would Ricky Hattons before there fight either and we all know what happened there. Cotto can negate his power by closing the distance which I am sure he would attempt to do.

I don't think Tszyus' straight right was all that after the ankle surgery, he looked good against Mitchell, but Mitchell was stopped by both Williams and Floyd afterwards, so there are some question marks (that's also all we saw of him for 3 years). Tszyu's punch and legs were stronger in his prime, the Hatton fight isn't really a great measuring stick for that.

We should be talking about Tszyus' best performances if we're matching him up with the best Cotto, not his worst.

[BoppaZoo]

Originally Posted by Dekkers

I don't think Tszyus' straight right was all that after the ankle surgery, he looked good against Mitchell, but Mitchell was stopped by both Williams and Floyd afterwards, so there are some question marks (that's also all we saw of him for 3 years). Tszyu's punch and legs were stronger in his prime, the Hatton fight isn't really a great measuring stick for that.

We should be talking about Tszyus' best performances if we're matching him up with the best Cotto, not his worst.

any version of Kostya between 1999 and 2002 beats Cotto.

i mean we saw Judah who hasnt got Tszyu's power or speed rock Cotto twice.
you think a Prime Tszyu would let Cotto off if he rocked him. Tszyu would finish Cotto off quickly.

As for Cotto's chance well all im going to say is Cotto wouldnt have known that was Tszyu's weakness (closing the distance down so it takes away his power), hell noone knew this was the best way to beat Tszyu until after the Hatton fight.

Cotto's to dumb and would play into Tszyu's hands. im not taking anything away from Cotto he is a huge talent but with a chin like that against a man like Tszyu.

Tszyu TKO 7

thats the way i see it sorry MSTR.

[MSTR]

Originally Posted by Dekkers

I don't think Tszyus' straight right was all that after the ankle surgery, he looked good against Mitchell, but Mitchell was stopped by both Williams and Floyd afterwards, so there are some question marks (that's also all we saw of him for 3 years). Tszyu's punch and legs were stronger in his prime, the Hatton fight isn't really a great measuring stick for that.

We should be talking about Tszyus' best performances if we're matching him up with the best Cotto, not his worst.

I said prime KT no problem there. Just saying KT needed room to get power on that right hand. He liked to throw it coming forward, it wasn't the same punch on the counter. I am sure thats what Miguel would like to do. Whether it would work or not is an entirely different story.

[MSTR]

Originally Posted by BoppaZoo

any version of Kostya between 1999 and 2002 beats Cotto.

i mean we saw Judah who hasnt got Tszyu's power or speed rock Cotto twice.
you think a Prime Tszyu would let Cotto off if he rocked him. Tszyu would finish Cotto off quickly.

As for Cotto's chance well all im going to say is Cotto wouldnt have known that was Tszyu's weakness (closing the distance down so it takes away his power), hell noone knew this was the best way to beat Tszyu until after the Hatton fight.

Cotto's to dumb and would play into Tszyu's hands. im not taking anything away from Cotto he is a huge talent but with a chin like that against a man like Tszyu.

Tszyu TKO 7

thats the way i see it sorry MSTR.

Fair call mate. But a couple of points for consideration.

Judah has more speed then KT, and is also has very good power off one punch. Not KT power but good power still. Watch the Rivera fight for reference. Judah had him on his arse about 4 times, and now like 4 years later a supposed great prospect like Berto can't even finish him.

Cotto naturally fights in close and backs his opponents up, so I couldn't imagine him trying to box KT regardless. I think style wise he would give KT more trouble then most.

However, I think KT was very cagey, and that Cotto's chin still has a question mark. I can see that right hand landing and if it could very easily KO Cotto.

At this stage I would go with KT also, but if Cotto can beat Mosley and another puncher in the divison without getting Knocked Down, my opinion will almost certainly change.

[BoppaZoo]

Originally Posted by MSTR

Fair call mate. But a couple of points for consideration.

Judah has more speed then KT, and is also has very good power off one punch. Not KT power but good power still. Watch the Rivera fight for reference. Judah had him on his arse about 4 times, and now like 4 years later a supposed great prospect like Berto can't even finish him.

Cotto naturally fights in close and backs his opponents up, so I couldn't imagine him trying to box KT regardless. I think style wise he would give KT more trouble then most.

However, I think KT was very cagey, and that Cotto's chin still has a question mark. I can see that right hand landing and if it could very easily KO Cotto.


At this stage I would go with KT also, but if Cotto can beat Mosley and another puncher in the divison without getting Knocked Down, my opinion will almost certainly change.

Mine mind wont change.

you ask why is because lets be honest here Cotto is better fighter at 147. and Mosley is well old.

but if this fight had of taking place it would have been at 140. so that means Cotto's Power and his tactics just wouldnt have been enough to get over the line.

Its not Cotto's skill or even his power. Its that poor defense he has and that average chin. the reason Hatton beat Tszyu was partly because of his style but i feel also is because he had a better chin than most people thought.

that type of chin against Tszyu spells one thing Trouble.

just ask Zab Judah.

[Box-on]

I like both of these guys and not just because they stopped Judah, although that is a good enough reason..Prime Tszyu with his power and accuracy would stop Cotto imo. Iv'e seen several Cotto fights and he can be rocked by lesser punches than Tszyu. And for what it's worth Hatton did not face a prime Tszyu.

[MSTR]

Originally Posted by BoppaZoo

Mine mind wont change.

you ask why is because lets be honest here Cotto is better fighter at 147. and Mosley is well old.

but if this fight had of taking place it would have been at 140. so that means Cotto's Power and his tactics just wouldnt have been enough to get over the line.

Its not Cotto's skill or even his power. Its that poor defense he has and that average chin. the reason Hatton beat Tszyu was partly because of his style but i feel also is because he had a better chin than most people thought.

that type of chin against Tszyu spells one thing Trouble.

just ask Zab Judah.

Cotto doesn't have poor defense he is just an active fighter which naturally leaves him open to being hit more. I actually think he has good defense. Great head movement, keeps his guard very high. When your a body puncher your always going to run the risk of getting cleaned up to the head whilst getting your shots off.

I was talking about the Cotto of now who fights at 147. I didn't specifiy but I was thinking of KT coming up to 147, and having the bout there. I think KT could hold the weight quite easily.

If Cotto can hold off against a couple decent punchers he will have proved to me that his chin although not great, isn't weak either.

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by MSTR

I said prime KT no problem there. Just saying KT needed room to get power on that right hand. He liked to throw it coming forward, it wasn't the same punch on the counter. I am sure thats what Miguel would like to do. Whether it would work or not is an entirely different story.

That's one of the reasons I was referring to Tszyus legs in my last post, Kostya always had a good set of legs to generate space when he needed it. Even against fighters that would constantly push forward (e.g, Tacky), Tszyu didn't have a problem generating space so he could put something more behind those right hands.

Another thing about the Hatton fight was that Tszyu was looking more towards the left hook to beat Hatton, so there wasn't as much emphasis on generating room for his right hand.

[BoppaZoo]

Originally Posted by MSTR

Cotto doesn't have poor defense he is just an active fighter which naturally leaves him open to being hit more. I actually think he has good defense. Great head movement, keeps his guard very high. When your a body puncher your always going to run the risk of getting cleaned up to the head whilst getting your shots off.

I was talking about the Cotto of now who fights at 147. I didn't specifiy but I was thinking of KT coming up to 147, and having the bout there. I think KT could hold the weight quite easily.

If Cotto can hold off against a couple decent punchers he will have proved to me that his chin although not great, isn't weak either.

like ive said at 140 it isnt even close.
Tszyu TKO 7

but at 147 its a different fight.
it would be a close fight that could go either way. all i will say though if Tszyu hurts Cotto just once its over. thats at either 140 or 147 because unlike Judah Tszyu could finish with a devastating style.

but at 147 its harder for Tszyu the longer the fight goes. but its all speculation i mean if i had to say though Prime for Prime.
2007 Cotto vs a 2001 Tszyu. i have to go with Tszyu only because of one reason Cotto seems to get hurt by everybody. and if Tszyu hurts you in a fight its over. no matter at 140 or 147.

but if Cotto had of faced Tszyu before Hatton got to him who knows how the fight would have went. its all speculation. Cotto is good but lets be honest here he has more weakness's than Tszyu has and that hurts him in a matchup.

Tszyu TKO 7 at 140
Tszyu by TKO at 147 if he catch's Cotto or hurts him.
Cotto UD at 147 if the fight goes the distance though.

thats what i think.

[Dekkers]

Originally Posted by BoppaZoo

any version of Kostya between 1999 and 2002 beats Cotto.

i mean we saw Judah who hasnt got Tszyu's power or speed rock Cotto twice.
you think a Prime Tszyu would let Cotto off if he rocked him. Tszyu would finish Cotto off quickly.

As for Cotto's chance well all im going to say is Cotto wouldnt have known that was Tszyu's weakness (closing the distance down so it takes away his power), hell noone knew this was the best way to beat Tszyu until after the Hatton fight.

Cotto's to dumb and would play into Tszyu's hands. im not taking anything away from Cotto he is a huge talent but with a chin like that against a man like Tszyu.

Tszyu TKO 7

thats the way i see it sorry MSTR.

I'd like to see how well Cotto takes a shot to the body at 147 first though, I think people favouring Cotto think his body punching would eventually break down Tszyu at the higher weight, but Tszyus' left hook to the body is more devastating and explosive than any single body punch in Cottos arsenal.