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Old 08-01-2007, 12:48 AM   #1
j0hn0
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Default CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

seems to me that even when he does win now, its always with asterisk, (*despite the losses to sanders, brewster). and his opposition isnt credited for facing the best hw in the world, they just as often questioned for losing to a guy with "no heart" and "no chin"...

whats worse is there simply doesnt seem to be the competition out there to change any of it. if he beats povetkin, holyfield, and any of the other current title holders in his next 3 fights...does that really raise his status all that much? even if LL came back and fought him, it would be a middle aged over the hill LL that wlad wouldnt get credit for...


so fair or not, is it even possible for him to reach any kind of ATG status?
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:02 AM   #2
brooklyn1550
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

Yes, Wladimir can become an ATG and a Hall of Famer. He needs to unify all the title belts against Chagaev/Ibragimov and Peter/Maskaev along with wins over current contenders such as Holyfield, Lyakhovich, Valuev, Thompson, etc. and beat future stars such as Povetkin, Solis, and Haye should they continue on the right track. It wouldn't hurt to avenge his loss to Corrie Sanders if he makes some noise in the future, but he can still become an all time great. To be honest, I really think he will.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:04 AM   #3
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

well he has to fight at least 8 fighters to be the undisputed champ and take on the top contenders. he only fights 1-2 times a year. its gonna by around 6 years before he'll be considered an ATG
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:12 AM   #4
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

If he unifies, yes.

Last edited by one punch; 04-07-2006 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

Quote:
Originally Posted by j0hn0
seems to me that even when he does win now, its always with asterisk, (*despite the losses to sanders, brewster). and his opposition isnt credited for facing the best hw in the world, they just as often questioned for losing to a guy with "no heart" and "no chin"...

whats worse is there simply doesnt seem to be the competition out there to change any of it. if he beats povetkin, holyfield, and any of the other current title holders in his next 3 fights...does that really raise his status all that much? even if LL came back and fought him, it would be a middle aged over the hill LL that wlad wouldnt get credit for...


so fair or not, is it even possible for him to reach any kind of ATG status?
Almost definetly, i have different thoughts than most on the heavyweight division though...Too sum my thoughts on the heavyweight division heres a quick one just to do it.. If there was no Ali there wouldnt have been Norton, Shavers, Bonavena, Lyle the list goes on, they were no better than any other heavyweight contenders/champions of this era, but they fought ali, so they get praised, its crap..Back to the question, yes Wlad will almost have a garunteed atg spot, even people who hate the divison will admit too it cause he at least cleared out what he could.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:28 AM   #6
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

He has the skills to be an ATG but currently he doesn't have the competition. So for now at least I'd say the jury is out.

Personally I'd like to see him become one and I'd love to see him fight someone like a prime Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson or someone of that calibre.

The only thing besides lack of competition that could stop him would be if he was KO'd again. I think that would stop his climb to become an ATG in it's tracks.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:38 AM   #7
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

He can be. The division is not very strong right now, but that has never played a large part.

Last edited by Dr Z; 04-07-2006 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dipper_Brown
I disagree.


I dont think Vitali is great.

Wlad has shown alot more than VK has. The only thing VK has ever shown in the ring is what face muscles look like under the skin.
I AGREE WITH YOU HERE AS BOTH VLADIMIR AND VITALI ARE FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FROM GREAT..PLEASE I HOPE THE WRITER OF THE QUOTE BEFORE THIS DOESNT PUT THEM IN THE SAME SENTENCE AS THE REAL GREATS LIKE ALI PATTERSON MARCIANO FRAZIER FOREMAN N EVEN LENNOX..
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Old 08-01-2007, 01:58 AM   #9
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

When it's all said and done I think he will be...
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:25 AM   #10
smokey
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

I think he'll probably get in the HoF, but that's not saying much, since just about every titlist eventually gets in. Being rated ATG by boxing scribes in the future? I don't see it... not because of his defeats, either. He hasn't fought a career defining type of opponent, yet, and there isn't really one hanging out and waiting, either.

There are a few fighters who are rated ATG for simply dominating totally in a weak era, but they usually don't have loses to a mid/upper-mid level fighter on their records, much less two. For that reason, I think he really needs to have a signature opponent who defines him by either pushing him in a fight or building a name on their own.

Look at Lewis. He had losses to mediocre opposition. He avenged them both, but that alone doesn't make him an ATG. He dominated his era, which helped, but it is the victories over Holyfield and Tyson that solidified the ATG status, due to those fighters reputation and accomplishments of the era. If not for those two opponents would be be viewed as an ATG or just a good champ?

The problem for Wlad is who is that opponent? He's come a long way. If he unifies the titles, he deserves a chance to prove greatness among the other champs from history.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:54 AM   #11
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

I think he can, but he needs to win a lot of fights to do it. Something like clean up the current division and beat up and comers like Povetkin, Solis, Haye.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:55 AM   #12
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

Its an uphill climb, as he dug himslef a huge hole with three bizzarre/embarrassing stoppage losses, 11 knockdowns including three in the fight which is his best win to date, and the crappiest "win" ever against TOS.

Everyone else has already touched upon unification and finding the competition- I think longevity and activity are going to be two other keys. But really, there is no garuntee that he is ever going to fight more than twice a year, or fight on at all for that matter. After all, he does sometimes give the impression that he really doensn't want to be doing this.

I used to think that avenging losses was key, but based on the fact that he got no respect out of the Brewster deal, he ought not to bother with Sanders.

Last edited by Zakman; 04-07-2006 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 08-01-2007, 03:56 AM   #13
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

I think so, but that's just because ,outside of MAYBE Povetkin, I don't see anyone who is going to beat Klitschko within the next 4-5 years. Klitschko's in his prime right now I think, both mental and physical. If Klitschko beats all the best contenders in the division for the next couple of years, and unifies..yes, definately I think he would be an ATG when people look at his resume in 30 years.
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Old 08-01-2007, 05:40 AM   #14
Orang-Utan Jim
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

Sure he can become an ATG. Why not? Because he is white and non-american?
If he unifies the titles or atleast, if unifying isnīt possible due to politics, boxes the best out there (Ring Champ) for another 3 or 4 years and beats them, I would definitely rank him in the Alltime Top10. His offensive arsenal and ring generalship is world class and his todays defense is good enough to survive against everybody out there.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:13 AM   #15
smokey
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Default Re: CAN Wlad become ATG/Hof'er?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orang-Utan Jim
Sure he can become an ATG. Why not? Because he is white and non-american?
If he unifies the titles or atleast, if unifying isnīt possible due to politics, boxes the best out there (Ring Champ) for another 3 or 4 years and beats them, I would definitely rank him in the Alltime Top10. His offensive arsenal and ring generalship is world class and his todays defense is good enough to survive against everybody out there.
My point was that dominanting a weak division with losses to questionable opponents (Purity and Sanders, Brewster defended the title for a while for more credibility) makes being an all-time great heavyweight becomes difficult to make a case for. How do you get ranked relative to guys like Joe Louis and Muhammed Ali? They had losses, but not against mid level fighters when they were in their prime. People question Marciano's greatness due to relatively weaker opposition during his reign, and HE NEVER LOST!

Would Leon Spinks be recognized as an ATG heavyweight? He was a universally recognized champ. That by itself doesn't do it.
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