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Old 03-15-2012, 11:12 AM   #61
McGrain
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

It was the power of the accumulation of the punches that resulted in the knockouts, knockouts that are entirely unique and were never recreated by any other fighters.

This idea that accumulation punches somehow bypass the need for blunt force trauma in order that they do their work is bizarre.
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Old 03-15-2012, 11:14 AM   #62
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

Ali was not a strong puncher. His power was generated with his speed.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:25 PM   #63
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

Maybe we should start posting 'quotes' from Ali's sparring partners about his power.

The Early Years;

* Solomon 'Jackhammer' McTier was in the ring with him from 1960 thru 1965.

"When Cassius wanted to hurt you, he could. It wasn't his normal routine in sparring
sessions to hurt or embarrass the guys who were there to help him. But occasionally,
when someone got out of line or started chirping, Cassius could shut him up."

"One of the first times I saw his raw power, was in a sparring session with Dave Bailey in 1962.
Dave was no kid, he was a 29 year old man, and was an experienced fighter with about 30 fights.

Though Dave was kind of a journeyman, he did have a reputation as a tough sparring partner, and
one who could get rough in there. One day, Dave was really mauling Cassius and wouldn't back off.
After 3 rounds of this, Cassius really let it go in the 4th round, and dropped Bailey with a
big right hand. Dave got up, but was staggering around the ring like the Mummy. He was
out on his feet. In that moment, I knew this kid could punch if he wanted too."

Last edited by Senor Pepe'; 03-15-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:34 PM   #64
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

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Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Its underrated, he seriously wasn't feather fisted, certainly in his prime where he was more athletic/explosive. When ALi sits on his shots they can do serious damage. Foreman was ko'd and not Holyfield/Frazier/Lyle managed that.

The Liston stoppage was supposedly a dive, well Liston continued and Walcot stopped it incorrectly. But the shot that put Liston down was a temple shot and being hit there can put you on queer street.

The Williams fight was brutal, Williams may have been past prime but was pasted

Remember Ali didnt attempt to put full power into his shots most the time, he aimed to hit and not be hit, power was an after thought. If you get careless though he could punnish you. Also sometimes he looked to punnish his man instead of going for the KO
Good post Ali could hurt when he had the mind to do so. Not an all time one punch banger,but as has been said,certainly no feather fisted type.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:34 PM   #65
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

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Originally Posted by Quickhands21 View Post
Ive long been here during debates that ali was a light puncher..And Ali didnt have any pop..He obviously wasnt a one and your out fighter..I think he had about 7..above average..What do you guys think
I completely agree. Ali's power -- especially in his right hand -- was always underrated. That's not to say that Ali was a bing banger, or a one punch KO artist...not at all. But, Ali could stun or hurt most fighters with a single, quick, snapping right. After that, Ali could put a dozen punches together to finish a man off.

By no means should Ali's power be dismissed as "light."
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:37 PM   #66
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerPuncher View Post
Its underrated, he seriously wasn't feather fisted, certainly in his prime where he was more athletic/explosive. When ALi sits on his shots they can do serious damage. Foreman was ko'd and not Holyfield/Frazier/Lyle managed that.

The Liston stoppage was supposedly a dive, well Liston continued and Walcot stopped it incorrectly. But the shot that put Liston down was a temple shot and being hit there can put you on queer street.

The Williams fight was brutal, Williams may have been past prime but was pasted

Remember Ali didnt attempt to put full power into his shots most the time, he aimed to hit and not be hit, power was an after thought. If you get careless though he could punnish you. Also sometimes he looked to punnish his man instead of going for the KO
Nat Fleischer fvcked up Ali vs. Liston II!

Liston went down, Walcott did not start the count until Ali went to a neutral corner. Liston got up before Walcott reached 10 and the fight continued... Liston did not throw another punch though. Nat Fleischer was in the crowd but felt teh need top run his big mouth about Liston being down for more than 10 seconds... it doesn't matter if Liston was down for a week... the count had not reached 10.

Anyway, I do blame Walcott for not standing his ground (Nat wasn't the damn ref) but had Nat kept his mouth shut the fight would have continued and the ending would have been less controversial.

They should have fought a 3rd time.
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:38 PM   #67
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

Well I think in King of the World liston is quoted as saying some very positive things about Alis power. But more than any other fighter I think its impossible to separate Ali's power, which was about average (for a 215 lb heavyweight), from his timing and accuracy, both of which were flawless. If you said rate Alis power I would give him a 5/10... If you said rate him as a puncher then he's easily a 7/10
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:44 PM   #68
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

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Originally Posted by Hookie View Post
Nat Fleischer was in the crowd but felt teh need top run his big mouth about Liston being down for more than 10 seconds... it doesn't matter if Liston was down for a week... the count had not reached 10.

.


Like Donny King getting all pissy about Tinkerbell Tyson VS Duster Budouglas, over a alleged 14 second "long count" in Round 8 what officially And legally only counted as a standard 9 seconds cos that is what teh ref got to in his own delayed interpretation of teh 10 count system.


Foreman Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!
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Old 03-15-2012, 12:59 PM   #69
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

Ali had a big frame. Tall with a long reach, wide with big shoulders, decent sized biceps and triceps. He carried over 220 Lbs with no problem but was better around 215 Lbs. After his final pro fight he carried about 250 Lbs and still looked fit. He was durable and physically strong. Not a huge puncher but could hurt anybody due to his speed and accuracy combined with his underrated strength and punching power.

56-5 (37) overall and 22-3 (14) in HW World Title Fights.

He went 10-0 (8KO) in HW title fights prior to his exile. He went 12-3 (6) in HW world title fights after his comeback in 1970. After the 3rd Frazier fight (he had no business fighting after this point) he went 7-3 (2) and was stopped once. He struggled in some of the wins.

Prior to his last 10 fights he went 49-2 (35)... pretty decent KO%.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:00 PM   #70
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

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Originally Posted by Foreman Hook View Post


Like Donny King getting all pissy about Tinkerbell Tyson VS Duster Budouglas, over a alleged 14 second "long count" in Round 8 what officially And legally only counted as a standard 9 seconds cos that is what teh ref got to in his own delayed interpretation of teh 10 count system.


Foreman Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:17 PM   #71
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foreman Hook View Post


Like Donny King getting all pissy about Tinkerbell Tyson VS Duster Budouglas, over a alleged 14 second "long count" in Round 8 what officially And legally only counted as a standard 9 seconds cos that is what teh ref got to in his own delayed interpretation of teh 10 count system.


Foreman Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooook!
Yeah. What a slimeball King was.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:23 PM   #72
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookie View Post

Prior to his last 10 fights he went 49-2 (35)... pretty decent KO%.
I agree that it's appropriate to discount Ali's last pro fights while doing an assessment of his ability and punching power. After 1976, Ali faded fast. Incredibly so.
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Old 03-15-2012, 01:27 PM   #73
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I agree that it's appropriate to discount Ali's last pro fights while doing an assessment of his ability and punching power. After 1976, Ali faded fast. Incredibly so.
So...so right The likes of Spinks and Evangelista would n't have reached the halfway mark with an Ali of 2/3 years earlier.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:06 PM   #74
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

s
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleRed View Post
Well I think in King of the World liston is quoted as saying some very positive things about Alis power. But more than any other fighter I think its impossible to separate Ali's power, which was about average (for a 215 lb heavyweight), from his timing and accuracy, both of which were flawless. If you said rate Alis power I would give him a 5/10... If you said rate him as a puncher then he's easily a 7/10
Yeah, I would agree with that. But the "phantom punch" against Liston and straight right against Foreman were "magic" punches unlike any others I ever saw thrown. Those were something more than just straight physics.
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:17 PM   #75
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Default Re: Is Ali's Power overlooked?

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Patterson and Cooper both said he was probably the weakest puncher they ever fought- and Cooper fought Karl Mildenberger.


Ali's power was 6.5 max and that's being kind. The foreman KO doesn't mean that much to me as a Middleweight could have probably taken him out in the round 8 due to his stamina issues.
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