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Old 08-01-2007, 07:19 PM   #16
redrooster
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
Thatīs what i mean, boy. The Taylor fights would never ever have been close if that would have been the Hopkins of the Johnson fight. Same situation.
Jones didnīt make Hopkins look bad. He beat him and Hopkins gave him the hardest fight up to that point.
Hopkins never fought all his live the same style, watch his fights. He switched from a hard-punching - no rr not on the Jackson level but still hard - fighter who pressed the action to a counter-puncher. So, your arguments fall to pieces. The difference between Hopkins and Jones is that Hopkins was able to adapt his style to his more and more limited physical abilities, Jones was not.
And, again - i think itīs the third time now, you really need your time till you get something - Taylor is no way a good example because Hopkins was 40 years in that fight and past his prime and got some problems with his weight - assumed by the difference of his performances between the Taylor fights and the Tarver fight.
I don't buy into this argument over Bernard and his hypothetical adaptability when his prime was over. Even in his youth he couldn't do more than win 2 or 3 rounds from Roy.

With Taylor all he had to do was close in on him and take advantage of his fragile chin and inexperience but failed not once but twice. The problem is he had no punch.

And what great middleweight did he ever beat?

None.
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Old 08-01-2007, 07:45 PM   #17
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

I like Hearns by UD
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:31 PM   #18
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
Again re-writing history? He won 4 on all three cards. You donīt buy in it? Well, you donīt have to. Iīm just stating facts.


Taylor doesnīt have a fragile chin, you will see when he beats Pavlik. And your Hopkins has no punch bs doesnīt become more true by repeating it.


Right, none. And what great mw did Hagler beat? Right, none.
Why didn't Hopkins step up the pressure earlier? he could have made it closer and with him being the champion would probably have held his title. But he dug too deep a hole for himself and even the judges couldn't bail him out.

Merchant asked Roy "what is he waiting for" and Roy told him he was waiting to get him out with one punch but then Larry replied Hopkins has never ben enough of a hitter to win like that.

Again I ask where is that adaptability people say he has? I didn't see the rematch but I have to think Jermaine whipped him worse the second time.

And you still can't say Bernard beat another great middleweight while Hagler beat them on a regular basis. Harold Lederman's scorecard was more accurate than the official judges as always. I too gave him three rounds against the gifted, albeit one handed and weight drained, Jones jr.

Big deal

X is a notable middleweight though not nearly a great one. He's just one of those guys who's good for a long time.
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:54 PM   #19
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
That guy is a Hagler nuthugger. He tries to discredit Leonard where he can because Leonard beat Hagler. And now he does the same with Hopkins since more and more people write B-Hop could be ranked above Hagler.
He has an agenda in all this.
Well....I wouldnt put BHop above Hagler, but i think BHop would beat Hagler in head to head just because bad styles.
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:55 PM   #20
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

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Originally Posted by redrooster
Why didn't Hopkins step up the pressure earlier? he could have made it closer and with him being the champion would probably have held his title. But he dug too deep a hole for himself and even the judges couldn't bail him out.

Merchant asked Roy "what is he waiting for" and Roy told him he was waiting to get him out with one punch but then Larry replied Hopkins has never ben enough of a hitter to win like that.

Again I ask where is that adaptability people say he has? I didn't see the rematch but I have to think Jermaine whipped him worse the second time.

And you still can't say Bernard beat another great middleweight while Hagler beat them on a regular basis. Harold Lederman's scorecard was more accurate than the official judges as always. I too gave him three rounds against the gifted, albeit one handed and weight drained, Jones jr.

Big deal

X is a notable middleweight though not nearly a great one. He's just one of those guys who's good for a long time.
That sentence right there tells us your just a hater...
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Old 08-01-2007, 08:56 PM   #21
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

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Originally Posted by MagnificentMatt
Well....I wouldnt put BHop above Hagler, but i think BHop would beat Hagler in head to head just because bad styles.
What do you mean by bad styles? Clarify please
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Old 08-02-2007, 06:32 AM   #22
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

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Originally Posted by redrooster
he wasn't off balance, he was hurt. Don't you know what a hurt fighter looks like? That's why Bernard didn't move in until several rounds later when the hurt wore off.

Hopkins is the 90's version of james Kinchen, only he doesn't have quite the talent and power James had, tho more fire than the heat (no pun intended). james was also a sharper hitter.

make no mistake, Hopkins would not get the respect of Tommy Hearns and he couldn't hope to match his speed. Bernard doesn't have much to his game and has no real weapons. Larry Merchant discussed his lack of power which is what I said all along. He's too low on power and Tommy is much faster and sharper. he might even knock out X with that big right hand
But remember that Kichen did hurt Tommy in that fight and had him clinching like a octopus in heat. But still i would pick Hearns to win based on his better boxing ability from the outside
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:16 AM   #23
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

Quote:
Originally Posted by redrooster
Hopkins is the 90's version of james Kinchen, only he doesn't have quite the talent and power James had, tho more fire than the heat (no pun intended). james was also a sharper hitter.
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Old 08-02-2007, 07:20 AM   #24
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
Right, none. And what great mw did Hagler beat? Right, none.
Don't forget Rooster considers Mugabi, Sibson and Roldan all great tho

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Old 08-02-2007, 07:34 AM   #25
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

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Originally Posted by tobkhan
Yeah and Hopkins and Leonard arenīt
Pretenders, both of them

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Old 08-02-2007, 08:49 AM   #26
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobkhan
Yeah and Hopkins and Leonard arenīt
They aren't. Because Hopkins punch is average and Leonard would never survive at middleweight.

Did you see the Geraldo fight?
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Old 08-02-2007, 08:55 AM   #27
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
Don't forget Rooster considers Mugabi, Sibson and Roldan all great tho

I never said Mugabi was great. he was a great puncher tho and it would be asking too much for anyone except Hagler to get in the ring with him and expect to beat him.

Hard Rock Green almost beat him tho. Hard rock would get in with anyone and even upset Scypion. Green's hand speed, expecially on the inside was about a 9+ and had deceptive power with one whose arms were so short.

Green could have beaten John but was worn from his battle with Animal Fletcher. The Mugabi fight proved if you're going to take on the beast, you're going to get hit. And when he hits you he's going to hurt you. How would leonard take it?
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Old 08-02-2007, 09:12 AM   #28
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Default Re: Fantasy middleweight match

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Originally Posted by redrooster
I never said Mugabi was great. he was a great puncher tho and it would be asking too much for anyone except Hagler to get in the ring with him and expect to beat him.
Ok, we'll stick to Fletcher, Sibson and Roldan

So nobody could beat Mugabi except for Hagler lolol. Oh, and Duane Thomas

Quote:
Hard Rock Green almost beat him tho. Hard rock would get in with anyone and even upset Scypion. Green's hand speed, expecially on the inside was about a 9+ and had deceptive power with one whose arms were so short.
"Even" upset Scypion. You make it sound like an esteemed achievement. It's not. Is this the same "Hard Rock" that was 5'5, had a record of 22-10-2 and was whupped in just 2 rounds by Curry? I thought so

Quote:
Green could have beaten John but was worn from his battle with Animal Fletcher. The Mugabi fight proved if you're going to take on the beast, you're going to get hit. And when he hits you he's going to hurt you. How would leonard take it?
He'd had 4 fights since Fletcher including a loss to David Braxton. Most people would never had heard of him, let alone seen the man. As far as Mugabi always hitting people, tell that to Thomas

Mugabi would take cop that much Sugar he'd be lucky not to end the bout with diabetes.
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