Jake LaMotta vs. Jeff Lacy @ 168 lbs

[Marciano Frazier]

Originally Posted by Senya13

LaMotta was staggered in the very first round vs Murphy by a straight right, but the most damage was done in the last three rounds, not seven, and he would have floored LaMotta had the latter tried to come out for eighth round.

Um, how exactly would you know whether Murphy would or would not have floored LaMotta in the eighth? Moreover, even if he had, what LaMotta had already done(standing up to immense punishment from an extremely hard-hitting naturally bigger man over seven rounds while himself being well past his prime) had more than proven the incredible strength of his chin.

Both Murphy and Satterfield were very poor boxers. To know what I mean, Earnie Shavers failed to knock out Vicente Rondon, does that mean he has a top-notch chin too?

No, Rondon not being knocked out by Shavers doesn't prove he had a top-notch chin, but if Shavers, Foreman and Lyle had all failed to stop Rondon and Rondon had gone over 100 pro fights without ever being knocked down, that would absolutely prove he had a top-notch chin.

Joey Maxim beat all three, Robinson, Murphy and Satterfield, while being a natural light heavyweight, same as LaMotta. Guess that makes him stand even higher than the Bronx Bull.

You're not being reasonable if you're trying to argue that Maxim wasn't a naturally much bigger man than LaMotta. Maxim was 6'1" and fought much of his career at heavyweight, was a top five heavyweight contender, beat numerous name heavyweights and was lean and trim while fighting in the 180s. LaMotta was 5'8"- five inches shorter- and never weighed in over 175 in his life, in fact only weighing that high once.
Now, Maxim did have an exceptional chin himself, but he was floored a few times and suffered a one-round knockout to Curtis "the Hatchetman" Sheppard, so it can't be compared with LaMotta's. Besides which, Maxim was a skilled, cautious boxer who was hard to hit, while LaMotta was a straight-ahead slugger who took a great deal of punishment.

LaMotta has been fighting mostly smaller men, which allowed this legend of his chin rise to unprecedented heights, while there are plenty of fighters who had a chin just as good or better than his.

No, LaMotta fought an extremely tough schedule of opposition, including some of the hardest hitters of all time all the way from welterweight to light heavyweight, often absorbing huge amounts of punishment, and went over 100 professional fights without ever being knocked down. He had quite likely the single greatest chin in the history of the sport, pound-for-pound.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by thunder06

but isnt lacy a lot bigger than lamotta? i read he enters the ring at around 178-180 lbs.

LaMotta weighed in as high as 175 himself. In good shape. He fought and beat good light-heavyweights.
If they were weighing in under the same conditions Lacy weighs in at, I expect LaMotta would be about 175 and strong.

[Boro chris]

Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe

Lasting 12 rounds with Joe Calzaghe is far more impressive than having a few close fights with Sugar Ray Robinson -fullstop-

Oh give it a rest man!

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by dave krieg

Based on these stupid responses i know i am the only black person who is a member of this forum.

Idiot.

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe

Lasting 12 rounds with Joe Calzaghe is far more impressive than having a few close fights with Sugar Ray Robinson -fullstop-

That's why David Starie will be remembered as a legend.

[China_hand_Joe]

Originally Posted by Unforgiven

That's why David Starie will be remembered as a legend.

Was that sarcastic, or do you actually know your stuff -questionmark- Starie isn't highly regarded but he did hammer a very solid multi-time LHW champion -fullstop-

[Unforgiven]

Originally Posted by China_hand_Joe

Was that sarcastic -questionmark- Starie isn't highly regarded but he did go up in weight to hammer a very solid LHW champion who still hold a title today -fullstop-

Yeah, I was being sarcastic.
I dont think Starie's going 12 with Calzaghe was better than LaMotta's fights against Sugar Ray Robinson.

BTW, Calzaghe-Starie was one of the worst fights I've seen.

[thunder06]

what has lacy done in his career for ppl to even think he has a chance against lamotta?

[robert ungurean]

Lacey doesnt belong being mentioned in the same breath as Lamotta let alone the same ring.

[Shake]

I'll have to agree with that one fine gentleman. Lacy wins because he's black and LaMotta beat up women.

[thunder06]

Does lacy have any chance at all of knocking out lamotta?

[Senya13]

Originally Posted by Marciano Frazier

Um, how exactly would you know whether Murphy would or would not have floored LaMotta in the eighth? Moreover, even if he had, what LaMotta had already done(standing up to immense punishment from an extremely hard-hitting naturally bigger man over seven rounds while himself being well past his prime) had more than proven the incredible strength of his chin.

If you take real best chins of all time, they were not stopped because they couldn't continue anymore. Oliver McCall, Wayne McCullough, as an example. No matter how much they were hit, they were ready to go on. LaMotta is not on their level, same as Chuvalo (who didn't really take much punishment in his fight with Foreman, except for several clean punches in the 3rd round).

No, Rondon not being knocked out by Shavers doesn't prove he had a top-notch chin, but if Shavers, Foreman and Lyle had all failed to stop Rondon and Rondon had gone over 100 pro fights without ever being knocked down, that would absolutely prove he had a top-notch chin.

Most of LaMotta's 100 fights were against mediocre or poor punchers, except a few bouts (several of them against naturally smaller man, doesn't matter that he was taller, Robinson was a natural welter to light middleweight). And he was stopped in 4 of those fights (I'm aware of details of Billy Fox fight, but the fact remains - good puncher - stoppage loss, Al Silvani claimed he was not aware of any fix about this bout, investigations by NYSBC and the District Attourney failed to find proof of fixed fight, besides a doctor testified that LaMotta had a ruptured spleen before the fight; and we can't say for sure he'd last the distance vs Fox if he didn't throw the fight as he claimed).

You're not being reasonable if you're trying to argue that Maxim wasn't a naturally much bigger man than LaMotta.

If Maxim was bigger, it's only by several pounds. LaMotta was a natural light heavyweight and Maxim was a natural 180-pounder or thereabouts.

Maxim was 6'1" and fought much of his career at heavyweight, was a top five heavyweight contender, beat numerous name heavyweights and was lean and trim while fighting in the 180s.

It would be unreasonable to call him a heavyweight too. In modern epoch, he without a doubt would be fighting as a light heavyweight most of his career. He would be small even for cruiserweights.

LaMotta was 5'8"- five inches shorter- and never weighed in over 175 in his life, in fact only weighing that high once.

Height doesn't matter. It is well-known that LaMotta struggled most of the time he had to cut his weight down below 160 lbs. He was a natural light heavyweight.

No, LaMotta fought an extremely tough schedule of opposition, including some of the hardest hitters of all time all the way from welterweight to light heavyweight, often absorbing huge amounts of punishment, and went over 100 professional fights without ever being knocked down.

Fox fight - he was knocked out.
Robinson fight - LaMotta literally collapsed into Silvani's arms.
Murphy fight - he said he felt too weak to continue.
Nardico fight - he couldn't continue.

He had quite likely the single greatest chin in the history of the sport, pound-for-pound.

He should be nowhere near #1 spot.

[Lex]

This one's too easy. Jake had a granite chin and seemed like a brawler, but he was a slickster too. He wasn't the hardest puncher in the division, just one of the most determined. And he didn't take shots recklessly just because he could handle them. Just like Gene Fulmer and Carmen Basilio. These guys were tough and fought smart. Lacy hasn't learned to fight smart - yet. Give him time.

[Luigi1985]

Originally Posted by dave krieg

Based on these stupid responses i know i am the only black person who is a member of this forum.Lamotta had what 90 wins with only 30 or so kos?He had no real power.He wasnt fast and the thing about his chin is that is wasnt as nearly as good as you retards think it was.You clowns act like he was fighting people like Julian Jackson or John Mugabi.Look at their Ko percentages and compare them to the people Lamotta fought.
Lacy would just all over this woman beating punk and stop him early.

You little dumbass, take your racist and false black proud and leave this forum, Lacy is one of the most overrated fighters of today, luckily Calzaghe showed us how hyped he was, LaMotta beat fighters who were 2 classes above Jeff, stupid matchup here, there´s no comparison...


LaMotta TKO 12 Lacy

[jackiebrown]

i try and stear around stuff like this..the "race issues" ...but if jake lamotta was black... who'd win?