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Old 12-15-2012, 09:17 PM   #31
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

What Jack did with one punch in the seventh round of their second fight is enough info for me. Prime Dempsey would land that punch more readily and he may only need one. However Gene was the best pure boxer of all time at hwt and punchers can be outboxed so a Tunney win would not surprise.
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:40 PM   #32
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
What Jack did with one punch in the seventh round of their second fight is enough info for me. Prime Dempsey would land that punch more readily and he may only need one. However Gene was the best pure boxer of all time at hwt and punchers can be outboxed so a Tunney win would not surprise.

Well i think that Tunney would of had to have been bigger, i think he would need the height and weight advantage to beat Dempsey in his prime, maybe if he was 6'3 ish and had a longer reach than he did
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:07 AM   #33
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

Dempsey liked fighting the bigger fighters. Size would not be a decisive issue.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:10 AM   #34
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

Who would have won in their primes, the tigerish Dempsey of Toledo and Firpo against Gene Tunney? We can only speculate, but the vast majority of boxing people of that long ago time chose Dempsey to whip Tunney...I have always felt that contemporaries of
fighters of the same era, are much more apt to be correct in their judgements of fantasy fights than boxing fans decades later...On this basis I pick Jack Dempsey in his prime to finish what he started in the "long count" bout in 1927 when he at 32 ,rusty from
3 years of Hollywood tomcatting most likely kod Tunney in the 7th round...
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:44 AM   #35
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
What Jack did with one punch in the seventh round of their second fight is enough info for me. Prime Dempsey would land that punch more readily and he may only need one. However Gene was the best pure boxer of all time at hwt and punchers can be outboxed so a Tunney win would not surprise.
Dempsey landed about 5 shots in that combo and it only took a few seconds before Tunney had all his bearings and had more than enough strength to get on his bicycle the second he popped back unto his feet.

Dempsey winning is a very live possibility but I would bet on Tunney winning doing what he did in the 2 bouts, peppering Dempsey with straight shots while constantly on his bike. Dempsey was very lucky it wasn't a 15 rounder because I'm certain Tunney would've stopped Dempsey late had it continued.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:48 AM   #36
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

Who did this supposed peak Dempsey beat who was in Tunney's class and also at their peak? Who did Dempsey beat who actually had the upperhand against Greb?
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:49 AM   #37
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

Oh, I forget Toledo Tiger Dancer's Legs Hobo Hustler...
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:50 AM   #38
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

Mad....the punch that did the damage was that one left hook. The other shots were as Tunney was falling away from Dempsey and they in of themselves were not devastating punches. Also Tunney was down for 14.50 seconds. At what would have been the count of eight it looks like Tunney is picking up the count of the ref. The questions are twofold....would Tunney have had the strength to pull himself off the canvas before the count of 10 and assuming he did would he still have been able to move away as he did without the extra 4-5 seconds of rest? Tunney himself stated that he felt he would have gotten up but did not know if he would have been able at that point to avoid Dempseys on rush.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:56 AM   #39
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Mad....the punch that did the damage was that one left hook. The other shots were as Tunney was falling away from Dempsey and they in of themselves were not devastating punches. Also Tunney was down for 14.50 seconds. At what would have been the count of eight it looks like Tunney is picking up the count of the ref. The questions are twofold....would Tunney have had the strength to pull himself off the canvas before the count of 10 and assuming he did would he still have been able to move away as he did without the extra 4-5 seconds of rest? Tunney himself stated that he felt he would have gotten up but did not know if he would have been able at that point to avoid Dempseys on rush.
I am satisfied that Tunney would have beaten the count if it had been ten seconds, but maybe just maybe he would not have recovered sufficiently, and Dempsey would have finished him off.

We will never know for sure.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:06 PM   #40
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

i love tunney's style and he would have always given dempsey trouble but i would have to favor a prime dempsey here.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:16 PM   #41
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

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Or was gene the man?
I would pick Jack
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:29 PM   #42
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

I think that Tunney actually improved after the Long Count, though it's a mite hard to elaborate on that being that he had an inferior opponent in Tom Heeney in that last bout of his. I think Tunney was a precurser of the sophisticated, modern, skilled heavyweight and would have benefitted greatly if his two bouts with Dempsey were scheduled for 15 rather than 10. I think he would have stopped Dempsey in that first bout, anywhere from the 12th to the 14th, and that would have probably obviated the necessity of having that famous rematch. I also think that though Dempsey should be credited with that old explosive power that he demonstrated in that 7th round, it was more or less an abberation, because if Dempsey had it in him to have a third bout with Tunney, he wouldn't have come close to decking Gene. I also will rehash that opinion of mine that if Tunney had stayed in the game instead of retiring, he would have beaten every champion that came between him after his retirement right up to the coming of Joe Louis. I think he would have been a spent force by then and probably would have retired by '35 or '36.
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:13 AM   #43
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

Styles make fights and this would favour tunney.. If the fight went to a decision tunney would be the winner. However If by kayo, dempsey would win.
Tunney would out box demsey 6 times out of 10 but the threat of dempsey's power would always be present.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:50 AM   #44
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

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Originally Posted by ChrisPontius View Post
Dempsey at his peak was very motivated and filled with desire. In my opinion he would beat Tunney. Probably hand Tunney his first stoppage loss.

Fighters with Dempsey's style are very dependent on reflexes, speed and timing. In other words, their effectiveness declines rapidly as they age. That is why Tunney gave Dempsey such a bad beating twice.


I do think it would be a very hard fight for Dempsey though.
This about covers it.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:20 AM   #45
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Default Re: Knowing what we know, would you pick a PEAK Dempsey to beat Tunney?

Tunney's jab would always land before Dempsey's left hook and he'd always be able to slip the left hook and bang the counter right down the pipe
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