How good was Bonecrusher Smith? - Page 2

he grant · 10-18-2008, 04:49 PM

First off that's one name. Fine. That being said Holmes was 33 plus and Tim , while green with I believe 14 fights, was a super talented fighter in exceptional condition. In many ways that was Tim's best fight.

Who else?

Russell · 10-18-2008, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by he grant

That being said Holmes was 33 plus and Tim

Which means all of nothing considering fighter in question scored one of his best wins over Mercer when he was far older then 33 and who would go on to fight at a high level, successfully, until he was 50 something years old.

MRBILL · 10-18-2008, 05:30 PM

I grew up on the "Crusher" in the early 80s... He was a hulk with plenty of muscle... Yet, he was slow as a snail and never had any reflexes at all... 1986 was James Smith's PEAK year.... He beat up dudes like Mike Weaver, Jesse Ferguson and David Bey before kayoing a woefully out of shape Tim Witherspoon for the title... That set-up the title bout with Mike Tyson in early 1987. Well, that fight sucked ham and eggs to the max... Tyson was green, and Smith held too damn much.. The bout was a "Hug-Fest." After 1987, James Smith fought on, but he never really did a whole lot that's worth mentioning... Smith was a cool guy to talk with and all, but not a great fighter at all..... Cheers...

MR.BILL

he grant · 10-18-2008, 05:40 PM

What sort of logic was that Russell? First of all styles make fights. Second of all Witherspoon was highly motivated while Holmes was not compared to the Mercer bout where Holmes was highly motivated while Mercer expected an easy blow out.

The Mercer fight was not one of Larry's best performances, not even close. The drama made it a big win but that does not make a great performance by Holmes but a great performance by a 42 year old Holmes.

Bill1234 · 10-18-2008, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49

I find it ironic how everyone calling smith mediocre has yet to comment on the terrific performance bonecrusher put on holmes. only a 14-1 novice, bonecrusher had holmes in trouble during there bout and gave him all he could handle.

Larry didn't struggle against Bonecrusher at all. He was rocked once, but other than that he was in complete control of the fight.

Bill1234 · 10-18-2008, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My2Sense

Half the guys Holmes fought were novices who gave him a hard time, and other gave him far tougher fights than Bonecrusher did (ie: Weaver, Witherspoon, Williams, etc.).

How was Weaver a novice? He had nearly the same amount of fights as Larry.

MRBILL · 10-18-2008, 07:12 PM

Larry Holmes was GREAT!!! Yeah, some dudes like "Witherspoon, Smith & Carl Williams" were green when they challenged Larry Holmes, but them dudes had talent and size, along with some ability and skills....... Them dudes were NOT easy defenses....

MR.BILL

he grant · 10-18-2008, 08:43 PM

Holmes was also getting old by the time he fought those guys ...

My2Sense · 10-19-2008, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill1234

How was Weaver a novice? He had nearly the same amount of fights as Larry.

Sorry, that didn't come out right. I didn't mean that Weaver was a novice too, just that he gave Holmes a much tougher fight than Bonecrusher did.

My2Sense · 10-19-2008, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by he grant

First off that's one name. Fine. That being said Holmes was 33 plus and Tim , while green with I believe 14 fights, was a super talented fighter in exceptional condition. In many ways that was Tim's best fight.

Who else?

Truth Williams.

MRBILL · 10-19-2008, 05:14 PM

David Bey was a slob of a tubby piece of goo, but Bey could brawl pretty good for about 5 or 6 rds....... Bey fought a courages fight against Larry Holmes in 1985 before running out of gas, and then getting nailed by Holmes' right cross / crosses..... Bey was NOT a great fighter, but he was also NOT a pussy, either....

janitor · 10-19-2008, 06:38 PM

I find bonecrusher interesting, as a student of boxing history because his career circumstances were similar to those of fighters from the 1940/50s.

The man is a time capsule.

Mendoza · 10-19-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRBILL

I grew up on the "Crusher" in the early 80s... He was a hulk with plenty of muscle... Yet, he was slow as a snail and never had any reflexes at all... 1986 was James Smith's PEAK year.... He beat up dudes like Mike Weaver, Jesse Ferguson and David Bey before kayoing a woefully out of shape Tim Witherspoon for the title... That set-up the title bout with Mike Tyson in early 1987. Well, that fight sucked ham and eggs to the max... Tyson was green, and Smith held too damn much.. The bout was a "Hug-Fest." After 1987, James Smith fought on, but he never really did a whole lot that's worth mentioning... Smith was a cool guy to talk with and all, but not a great fighter at all..... Cheers...

MR.BILL

I have seen most of James Smith's fights major fights. . For openers, he had an all time moniker. James " bonecrusher " Smith. Great name.

It is my opinion that Withersooon threw the fight he lost to Bonecrusher Smith.

mr. magoo · 10-19-2008, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My2Sense

Half the guys Holmes fought were novices who gave him a hard time, and other gave him far tougher fights than Bonecrusher did (ie: Weaver, Witherspoon, Williams, etc.).

Having said that, the way I would describe Bonecrusher was as a dangerous journeyman. His main claim to fame is that he pulled off a huge upset win over Tim Witherspoon late in his career, when he came in as a late sub (and had already lost once before to Tim). That also turned out to be Bonecrusher's last hurrah.

I think claiming that HALF the men Holmes fought were novices and that they all gave him trouble, is oversimplifying things a tad. It's true that Weaver, Witherspoon, Bernick, Williams and snipes were all inexperienced, and gave Holmes some difficulty, but they hardly account for HALF of his 20 defenses, and while he struggled a bit with them, he also legitimately won those fights, and remember that some of them came when he was past prime ( williams, Witherspoon, smith ).

As for Bonecrusher beating Witherspoon, I have always believed this fight to be a dive and have explained my reasons in depth in the past, but don't care to go into again....

mr. magoo · 10-19-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill1234

How was Weaver a novice? He had nearly the same amount of fights as Larry.

True, but he was very poorly managed and had few wins over decent fighters. While he certainly had close to the number of total fights that Holmes had, he had also lost a fair number of them... In either case, Weaver was not selected as an opponent for Holmes because of his pretty record or vast experience. He was most likely viewed as an easy opponent..

That said, he developed into a very fine fighter..

10-18-2008, 04:49 PM	#16
he grant Historian/Film Maker East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 6,476 vCash: 1000	Re: How good was Bonecrusher Smith? First off that's one name. Fine. That being said Holmes was 33 plus and Tim , while green with I believe 14 fights, was a super talented fighter in exceptional condition. In many ways that was Tim's best fight. Who else?
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10-18-2008, 05:30 PM	#18
MRBILL P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 17,249 vCash: 1000	Re: How good was Bonecrusher Smith? I grew up on the "Crusher" in the early 80s... He was a hulk with plenty of muscle... Yet, he was slow as a snail and never had any reflexes at all... 1986 was James Smith's PEAK year.... He beat up dudes like Mike Weaver, Jesse Ferguson and David Bey before kayoing a woefully out of shape Tim Witherspoon for the title... That set-up the title bout with Mike Tyson in early 1987. Well, that fight sucked ham and eggs to the max... Tyson was green, and Smith held too damn much.. The bout was a "Hug-Fest." After 1987, James Smith fought on, but he never really did a whole lot that's worth mentioning... Smith was a cool guy to talk with and all, but not a great fighter at all..... Cheers... MR.BILL
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10-18-2008, 05:40 PM	#19
he grant Historian/Film Maker East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 6,476 vCash: 1000	Re: How good was Bonecrusher Smith? What sort of logic was that Russell? First of all styles make fights. Second of all Witherspoon was highly motivated while Holmes was not compared to the Mercer bout where Holmes was highly motivated while Mercer expected an easy blow out. The Mercer fight was not one of Larry's best performances, not even close. The drama made it a big win but that does not make a great performance by Holmes but a great performance by a 42 year old Holmes.
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10-18-2008, 07:12 PM	#22
MRBILL P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 17,249 vCash: 1000	Re: How good was Bonecrusher Smith? Larry Holmes was GREAT!!! Yeah, some dudes like "Witherspoon, Smith & Carl Williams" were green when they challenged Larry Holmes, but them dudes had talent and size, along with some ability and skills....... Them dudes were NOT easy defenses.... MR.BILL
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10-18-2008, 08:43 PM	#23
he grant Historian/Film Maker East Side Guru Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 6,476 vCash: 1000	Re: How good was Bonecrusher Smith? Holmes was also getting old by the time he fought those guys ...
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10-19-2008, 05:14 PM	#26
MRBILL P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 17,249 vCash: 1000	Re: How good was Bonecrusher Smith? David Bey was a slob of a tubby piece of goo, but Bey could brawl pretty good for about 5 or 6 rds....... Bey fought a courages fight against Larry Holmes in 1985 before running out of gas, and then getting nailed by Holmes' right cross / crosses..... Bey was NOT a great fighter, but he was also NOT a pussy, either....
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10-19-2008, 06:38 PM	#27
janitor P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 19,058 vCash: 1000	Re: How good was Bonecrusher Smith? I find bonecrusher interesting, as a student of boxing history because his career circumstances were similar to those of fighters from the 1940/50s. The man is a time capsule.
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