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Old 10-19-2008, 02:58 AM   #16
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

...people maybe didn't take Hopkins pre-fight because of the feeling he had faded, not because they felt Pavlik was that good. I think almost everyone would have picked Hopkins if they knew he still had something left.
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Didn't they? Yanks maybe. Oh, and don't you think they'll knock Calzaghe down a peg or two if he loses to Jones? And so they should.
Where were all the non yanks picking Hopkins?

Well Jones is certified shot really, at least IMO. Hopkins has been fighting strongly all along. Jones by contrast has been SMASHED. Big difference. Jones chance is that Calz is an average hitter and he might actually take risks and try and win the fight unlike against Tarver 3. He also still has some serious power i am guessing, maybe a big shot, but it's a big maybe. Personally i think Jones is shot, never thought that of Hopkins, just more wondered when he's going to finally age fully, it sometimes happens overnight. I'd have Jones at even longer odds than Hopkins was today, even given the style friendlies he has in this fight.

Calz has already proven beyond doubt his standing, he's beat numerous top fighters. Pav had too over a lesser period of time.
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:06 AM   #18
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
...people maybe didn't take Hopkins pre-fight because of the feeling he had faded, not because they felt Pavlik was that good. I think almost everyone would have picked Hopkins if they knew he still had something left.
I disagree, i have seen numerous people, including our own Dr. Z saying they considered Pav the next genuine great. His reputation was big with a lot of people. Many might take prime Hopkins, but Hopkins is a long long way from prime even given his great showing tonight.
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:09 AM   #19
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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Where were all the non yanks picking Hopkins.

I didn't say they did, I said it was because they're thinking that time had caught up with him, rather than thinking Pavlik was some brilliant fightet. Pavlik has nowhere near the talent of Calzaghe. A lot picked Peter to win last week? Was it because they were so impressed with him that they couldn't look anywhere else? Or that VK was rusty and faded? Everyone knew if Klitscko could fight anywhere near his best he'd win.
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:15 AM   #20
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
I didn't say they did, I said it was because they're thinking that time had caught up with him, rather than thinking Pavlik was some brilliant fightet. Pavlik has nowhere near the talent of Calzaghe. A lot picked Peter to win last week? Was it because they were so impressed with him that they couldn't look anywhere else? Or that VK was rusty and faded? Everyone knew if Klitscko could fight anywhere near his best he'd win.
Yes but Klit was much more unknown than Bhop, he'd had some big injuries and a huge time out. We all knew Hopkins could still mix it well as he had proven time and again most recently. Different situation again. Most didn't think Klit was going to be any good.

Hopkins brilliant skills and experience completely stifled Pav out of it. This was a young strong guy with some excellent wins. We'll see how he rebounds, but Hopkins really did himself justice today
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:17 AM   #21
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

I've just looked at the Hopkins-Pavlik thread below, it seems that the message is that "If this fight was a few years ago" Hopkins would win comfortably.
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:33 AM   #22
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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I've just looked at the Hopkins-Pavlik thread below, it seems that the message is that "If this fight was a few years ago" Hopkins would win comfortably.
But the thing is it's not a few years ago. Hopkins is not what he once was, and hasn't been for a long time, not today, not yesty, not for ages. He was showing his decline as far back as Taylor at the very least. He hasn't found no fountain of youth, he's not the man he was. He's still obviously a great fighter and is less affected by age than almost anyone in history, but he's winning these fights while well past his best.

If the fight was years ago i wouldn't doubt Hopkins would have stopped him. But to overcome the man in the fashion he did at this stage of his career, well. The odds weren't 4-1 for nothing.

Embrace the man Dinner and give him his due!



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Old 10-19-2008, 03:35 AM   #23
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

Ha ha, it's a good win, I can't deny that.


But Jones beating Calzaghe would be far better.
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:37 AM   #24
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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Ha ha, it's a good win, I can't deny that.
Phew, cheers mate!!!!!! It wasn't that hard was it

I'm sure over time i could do you a Hopkins compilation on DVD of his greatest fights you might not have

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Old 10-19-2008, 03:39 AM   #25
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Ha ha, it's a good win, I can't deny that.


But Jones beating Calzaghe would be far better.


You just had to go back and edit and add to that didn't ya! Full unbridled credit was just too difficult!

I've seen plenty of peeps still claiming Hopkins did beat him actually. Haven't watched it all myself, but obviously it is a damn close and competitive fight.
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:52 AM   #26
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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Originally Posted by JohnThomas1


You just had to go back and edit and add to that didn't ya! Full unbridled credit was just too difficult!
Yes, I had to didn't I. Sorry mate.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnThomas1
I've seen plenty of peeps still claiming Hopkins did beat him actually. Haven't watched it all myself, but obviously it is a damn close and competitive fight.




It was close...in Hopkins' country too. I'd like them to rematch over here myself, but we know Bernard doesn't travel well. I've always regarded home advantage as huge, as many people on here probably know.
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Old 10-19-2008, 03:58 AM   #27
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Yes, I had to didn't I. Sorry mate.
I would have been disappointed any other way

Quote:
It was close...in Hopkins' country too. I'd like them to rematch over here myself, but we know Bernard doesn't travel well. I've always regarded home advantage as huge, as many people on here probably know
Oh come on, i'd hardly call one draw for the title before he hit his straps as a sign of not travelling well. I'd say he'd travel with no problem whatsoever.
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:01 AM   #28
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

Well, I'll start believing he'd fight Calzaghe in London or Cardiff when the bell rings for round one. I don't think there's any chance he'd come over.
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:05 AM   #29
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh
Well, I'll start believing he'd fight Calzaghe in London or Cardiff when the bell rings for round one. I don't think there's any chance he'd come over.
Ok i thought you meant as in performance wise. Not many do travel now, being lucky enough not to have to. A shame i guess.
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:07 AM   #30
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Default Re: So where does Hopkins rank now all-time?

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Pavlik has had a short and relatively meaningless reign at middleweight and he may not go on to do great things. He may never have any impact out of middleweight nor even go down as an ATG fighter there.
Somebody was going to do this to Pavlik one day..I mean really.
Honestly, you can't discredit Pavlik and still speak positively of Hopkin's at the same time. Kind of difficult considering Pavlik nearly killed Taylor in there.

That's the entire point too. In Pavlik's "short time" he managed that, twice. Zertuche, Lockett, Abraham... Not great wins but he wiped his ass with all of them, and once again, did so in a short peroid of time.
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