Puzzling Question About Tyson

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011.


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  1. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This questions bugs me so i thought id ask what everyone else makes of it.

    Why is it that Tyson shows some IQ in the Bruno 1 fight, Ruddock fights where he knows hes in for a long night, so he wears the body down first and then works the head. Ruddock wasnt throwing anything in either fights due to the body shots landed by Tyson.

    Against Mathis, he turns the fight around when he figures out Mathis style and times him perfectly. I have never seen Tyson use that type of movement ever before or after the Mathis fight.

    Against Botha, instead of chasing him around and getting jabbed in the face (as he was for 5 rounds) he waits, lures Botha in and KOs him with a sweet right hand. (Something which he could have done in the first round if he bothered)

    Then why is it that he fought a really stupid fight against Holyfield? He did the same thing over and over again and it wasnt working?

    The fight consists of Tyson comes forward throws punch misses/holyfield parries or takes it on the chin, Holyfield hits Tyson with 1-2, move around.
    Keep repeating until Tyson tires.

    He made no attempt to work Holyfields body, even though he knew Holy was old.

    He was trying to take out a guy with a granite chin, with 1-2s?

    I know Holyfields better than all of the above combined, but why did Tyson fight such a stupid fight? when he has shown in ring IQ?
     
    Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011
    Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011
    #1
  2. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Because at this stage in his career,he'd go to pieces when up against a hardman like Holyfield. Okay,Ruddock was a tough cookie,but this was earlier on when Tyson could still fight somewhere near his prime capacity.
     
    Stevie G, Jun 25, 2011
    Stevie G, Jun 25, 2011
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  3. Armstrong!

    Armstrong! Active Member Full Member

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    Because every time Tyson tried to get in close he got head - butted.
     
    Armstrong!, Jun 25, 2011
    Armstrong!, Jun 25, 2011
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  4. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think Tyson kept coming forward, because Holyfields punches werent affecting him (Holyfield also recognises this and started using the headbutts too)

    Hes admitted himself in the James Toback video, the punches werent hurting him, just keeping him off balance
     
    Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011
    Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011
    #4
  5. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ok, physically and mentally Tyson wasnt the same post prison.

    However he still should have had some IQ, when he realised Holyfield isnt no walkover, so he should ahve worked the body to slow Holyfield down?

    Actually the last time Tyson ever worked the body was against Ruddock...and then showed some shades of it against Francis
     
    Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011
    Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011
    #5
  6. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    All goes back to the corner. I think Tyson actually believed if he hit Holyfield enough he would eventually stop him. He didnt think he needed to break him down, which was a big mistake. You can hear Bright towards the end telling Tyson "you must work his body", but Tyson didnt listen and it was too late. Tyson hit him pretty good in the 5th with a bodyshot that was a bit low, but he stood there and admired his work. He just wasnt capable of the same type of fight anymore. Even in the rematch, he wasnt throwing bodyshots, but he was still punching a little more in combination earlier in the fight, and it was working a little.

    Tyson just made a horrible mistake not hiring a boxing trainer when he got out of prison. His technique really was never the same and after such a long layoff he needed to go back to basics a little, but instead he picked up a lot of bad habits and wasted a lot of time. It wasnt until he hired Tommy Brooks that he really started over again, but the drama in his life never allowed him to gain any type of consistency as a fighter, just layoffs which frustrated Brooks to no end, because Tyson was making progress when he worked with him.
     
    lefthook31, Jun 25, 2011
    lefthook31, Jun 25, 2011
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  7. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thats how i read it, Tyson thought, Holyfields going to fall sooner or later and next thing you know, its round 10 and Holyfields still there.
    Also, i noticed this that right at the start of the fight, Tyson hits Holyfield and Holyfield is all over the place. I think Holyfield faked this to try and get Tyson overconfident. Mayweather did the same thing against Hatton in the first round of their fight.

    I was watching Round 5 the other day, it seemed Tyson had Holyfield exactly where he wanted him, no doubt a prime Tyson would have pounced at the oppurtunity and go for the kill, but instead he just let Holyfield off the hook?

    Tyson did well with Brooks, but i think Giachetti really did a good job with him too, why he wasnt bought in earlier (after prison) i dont know. He could have made a difference in the Holyfield fight, he certainly did in the Ruddock fights
     
    Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011
    Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011
    #7
  8. techks

    techks ATG list Killah! Full Member

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    Good thread. He did go to Holy's body at Rd 5 of the first fight but that's the only time I can recall him doing so. He did show decent timing against Ruddock but even more removed from his prime, Tyson under Brooks is slightly underrated imo.
     
    techks, Jun 25, 2011
    techks, Jun 25, 2011
    #8
  9. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    Holyfield has commented about the fist punch of the first fight. He said he watched a lot of Tysons fights and that Tyson would dip to his left and then throw the lefthook. He said Tyson came out and dipped but threw a righthand instead so he wasnt expecting it, and that the shot stung him badly.
    When I saw Holyfield not budge when Tyson landed that shot, I knew Tyson was in for a long night. That shot would have probably KO'd a lot of guys, it was a huge righthand.
     
    lefthook31, Jun 25, 2011
    lefthook31, Jun 25, 2011
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  10. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I reckon that caused Tyson to get very overconfident and thought he will have Holyfield out of there soon
     
    Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011
    Azzer85, Jun 25, 2011
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  11. ATP

    ATP Fringe Contender Full Member

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    Thanks Lefthook, ive wondered for years now wether evanders reaction to that first right hand in the 1st fight was genuine? Now i know :good




    Top Thread BTW OP, But it does add to my frustration with "what could have been" with Iron Mike :D
     
    ATP, Jun 25, 2011
    ATP, Jun 25, 2011
    #11
  12. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Thanks, this fight adds more frustration than the Douglas fight
     
    Azzer85, Jun 26, 2011
    Azzer85, Jun 26, 2011
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  13. Azzer85

    Azzer85 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I actualyl just watched the full fight on youtube. I noticed something straight away. After Round 5 where Tysion was having the most success and the beginning of roudn 6, Holyfield was ready to go. Then the cut happens (and the crowd cheers at it for some reason?) Straight after the referee lets them proceed Holyfield seems to pounce on Tyson....i always gave him the benefit of the doubt but now i feel he is a cheater

    You can tell the butt affected Tyson because he wasnt fighting the same afterwards.

    The first 5 rounds were tough affairs and both men were fighting equally, after the buttin round 6, you can clearly see Tyson weakend and Holyfield jumped at the oppurtunity.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BDb0rM6hHk[/ame]

    You can see Holyfield focusing on the cut at 24:25

    Cyz has them both level on scorecards after the KD, but i think Pachero has it right where he has Holy ahead by 2 points. This fight was alot closer and more winnable by Tyson than peopel make it seem

    You can blatantly hear Pachero in round 7-8 saying Tyson had 4 easy fights and he wasnt ready for a tough 12 rounder, he also states Ali fighting Frazier after his exile and similarly this is a different Tyson to Tyson of old.

    He also comments on the "reversal of form" about how Tyson was perecevied to look good and Holyfield not.
     
    Azzer85, Jun 26, 2011
    Azzer85, Jun 26, 2011
    #13
  14. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    It's interesting, some time ago I watched Marciano vs LaStarza II and noticed quite some similarity between that one and Tyson-Holyfield I. The big difference is that Marciano worked on breaking his man down, while Tyson kept chasing the KO. Another difference is that Holyfield is much more active on the offense; particularly in counter punching and wrestling him in the clinches.

    I do think Holyfield's legendary durability saw him through that fight. Even if Tyson didn't fight the smart, he still landed some bombs that would've stretched out most heavyweights.. but not Evander.
     
    ChrisPontius, Jun 26, 2011
    ChrisPontius, Jun 26, 2011
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  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    If that's the version you want to stick with, good luck with it.

    In truth, Holyfield was beating Tyson up from round 1 and 2 onwards. Sure, Tyson was landing shots too, but difference is Holyfield's shots were hurting and troubling Tyson.
     
    Unforgiven, Jun 26, 2011
    Unforgiven, Jun 26, 2011
    #15
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