A brief seminar on the theory "Hopkins couldn't beat guys his own size" etc

There are no smoke and mirrors most objective fans can see the true context of Hopkins achievements. While I cannot debate many of the points you have made it's all about context. Do you see Hagler with such open eyes when comparing these to great middleweights?

Lets have a look at another ATG middleweights resume in Hagler and judge it on the same criteria that you have with Hopkins.

Sugar Ray Leonard
Prime weight = welterweight 147lbs
Fought Hagler at middleweight (160)
Leonards record at middleweight or above from Hagler 2 wins /1 controversial draw/ 2 defeats.

* While clearly Leonard is better than Trinidad, Hagler lost to Leonard unlike Hopkins and Trinidad was at his prime while Leonard hadn't fought in almost 3 years.

Roberto Duran
Prime weight - lightweight 135lbs
Fought Hagler at - 160lbs
Not even Hopkins would pick on a light weight and Duran in the previous 81 fights had never fought at 160lbs.

* While Duran also is clearly a greater fighter than Wright, Wright was a career light middle 6 lbs below Hopkins prime weight while Duran fought at his prime fought a huge 25lbs below Hagler's weight class.

John Mugabi
Prime weight - light middleweight (154lbs)
Fought Hagler at middleweight :rofl
Started his career at 149.5lbs and was a career light middleweight before and after he fought Hagler.

* Just like De La Hoya, Mugabi had no real sucess above his ideal weight.

Thomas Hearns
Prime weight - welterweight or light middleweight (147 -154bs)
Fought Hagler at middleweight
Hearns at never fought at middleweight in 41 previous fights.

* Haglers best win, Hearns was a beast and while he had never previously fought at middleweight he was clearly still a force at 160lbs though not as formidable as he was at the lower weight.

Mustafa Hamsho
Prime weight - middlweight 160
Fought Hagler at middleweight
2 Good wins against a true middleweight. Though Hamsho would never win a world title and his best win was against a former light welterweight. So if Tarver is B level then Hamsho was B level at best.

* Tarver at least won a world title and was bigger than Hopkins unlike Hamsho.

Vito Antuofermo
Prime weight - light middleweight/middlweight (154 to 160)
Fought Hagler at - middlweight (160)
Antuofermo's record at 160+ from Haglers first fight 1 win / 2 defeats and after second fight 4 wins/ 1 defeat so a total record of 5 wins / 3 defeats. :rofl
The defeats coming at the hands of Minter and Hilton as well as losing previously to guys like Hope, Wissenbach and Weston.

Alan Minter
Prime weight - middleweight (160)
Fought Hagler at - middleweight (160)
Good win against a natural middlweight to win the titles on foreign soil.

*Good win but Minter like Pascal was limited to a certain level and unlike Hopkins this was during Haglers prime.

Now throw into the equation

Willie Monroe and Bobby Watts beating Hagler, 2 very good fighters but never champions and really just perennial contenders.
The legendary and not so sweet Sugar Ray Seales drawing with Hagler
Retired welterweight Leonard deservedly beating Hagler and Hagler unable to deal with the loss and so never fought again.
Being almost outboxed by the smaller shorter in fighter in Duran.
Hagler never moving up in weight to face his light heavyweight contemporaries. :deal

5 Times during Haglers career has got in the ring and hasn't been good enough to come out the victor.

* Sure Hopkins failed 8 times to come out the victor but 4 of those times was at an age when Hagler had already retired.

* Hopkins also did not throw himself out against Allen he was clearly pushed out by Mills Lane. Why try altering the facts unless you have an agenda?

Now I personally rate Hagler above Hopkins and always will his middleweight resume is simply better but you can't judge one all time great by a set of criteria and then give another all time great a pass when his own career does not meet such criteria. Just be fair and judge fighters equally rather than twisting the context of the facts to suit your argument and opinion.

 

Back in the day you had your best weight..where you were fastest and strong...like Billy Conn who often fought at 168 instead of 175.
You had then 8 big weight divisions.
To go up meant like today going up two weight divsions...against mostly Taller fighters.

In that fighters fought more back then, it was easier to be near one's weight.

Smart fighters stay near fighting weight like Haggler and Hopkins.

In that fat is lost after muscle...stupid fighters get more than 7% higher than fighting weight.
Many fighters who complain about being weight drained and or weak...are weaker, having still marbled flesh so they hit softer... Like Hands of 'Chalk' Duran who lost his punch due to ballooning into a fat man between fights after being a Lightweight.

 

Hopkins has engineered his career very well, paricularly these latter stages. He has frequently fought blown up fighters and never fought anyone his own size outside of a shot jones. I will say his last two efforts have been very good but we are not talking serious class here. Hopkins is a marvel for his age but is helped by weak divisions, a class fighter who punches from distance would have exposed him but he would avoid them as you would.monzon would have destroyed him.

 

calzaghe beat hopkins by 2-3 rounds

 

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Other than Pascal, how were they bigger? I'm not saying they are or aren't, but your criteria for size is incorrect, therefore invalidating the vast majority of your post.

 

Agreed point proven. Hell it was proven soon as he moved up the light heavyweight and beat Tarver. Hopkins didn't bother stopping over at super middle and jumped up 2 divisions to face a man who was expected by most to end his career at a point in his career where he was seen as past his prime. Yet you still have idiot's like Bailey saying he is still close to his peak.

There is so much **** about Hopkins on this forum because people can't deal with his abrasive manner and he has hurt the feelings of biased fans who have seen an old past prime fighter embarrass their favourite fighter. They can't deal so have to spread their biased opinions to diminish Hopkins and in doing so their own favourite fighter.

 

The only thing even partially relevant in what you say.