Throughout heavyweight boxing history, the smaller man has almost always beaten the bigger man in title fights. Why does everyone (including our own Geoff Ciani) believe the opposite is true? Jack Dempsey, Max Schmeling, Joe Louis, Ezzard Charles, Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, Michael Spinks, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield - all these men won the undisputed HW championship against a fighter who outweighed them, with the exception of Louis and Tyson who weighed the same as Braddock and Tucker, respectively. And they all defended the title mainly against bigger men, mostly dominating the era. Facts. Thoughts?
I know. I also laugh when people say Haye is not a proper heavyweight. He is a blown up cruiserweight. So Listen,Frazier,Tyson and Ali are blown up crusierweights.
Wlad and vitali though have destroyed that notion have they not ?, how many smaller guys have they now beat in title fights ? Many of the larger guys were very poor and just relied on there size, and though wlad and vits do to in some ways, for me they have more then good boxing skills and power
tunney>dempsey clay>liston bowe>holyfield lewis>holyfield swings and roundabouts, it all comes down to who the better boxer is
But certainly you understand that this era is full of overweight fighters. A tall, ripped Wlad will certainly beat a lighter but fat opponent. This era doesn't count - it's the "cheeseburger" era. After Tyson, heavyweight boxing became overweight boxing.
But he was a cruiserweight, he has only had what ? 5 HW fights, all against really poor opposition. Holyfield proved it could be done, but many of the names you mentioned were fighting at a time when the weight class of the HW's was a lot smaller then now (even if half of them are fat ****ers now to be fair). When henry cooper died last month, they mentioned his weight as a heavy was about 185.5 pounds which i had forgotten about, thats crazy light aint it
I'm talking about weight. Dempsey outweighed Tunney in both fights. Liston outweighed Ali both times. Holyfield was 38 years old, and still managed to embarrass Lennox and Bowe.
Your statistical sampling is based on a flawed premise. By limiting it to title fights, there is an implicit caveat that a champion is probably a greater than average fighter. Jack Dempsey was able to beat up larger men because he was Jack Dempsey. He was special. But, generic smaller man generally loses to generic bigger man. Moreover, weight is not always a good determiner of true "size". Ali was generally the bigger man in the ring. Even when outweighed he was longer, and taller. A guy with a few extra lbs of fat on him does not always mean he has a weight advantage.
The point is, CW is more difficult than HW. Ali's HW resume when he fought Liston was even worse than Haye's, according to the standards you're applying to Haye. Fighting guys like Marciano, Ali, Louis is more difficult than fighting taller slower giants like Lennox and Wlad. So Haye is more used to fighting fast opponents. Wlad has only fought fast guys in about 4 fights. Haye has fought them his entire career. Tomorrow we might see another Dempsey vs Willard.
ok then Bowe v Holyfield Lewis vs mccall/Holyfield Buster douglas v Tyson Johannson vs patterson Liston vs Patterson Louis vs Bradock Willard vs Johnson Jefries v frizsimons Wlad v Byrd Vit v Hide Vit v sanders Wlad v Ibragimov Foreman v moorer Foreman v Frazier and many more your point is?
two guys facing old/unmotivated/scared/less talented challengers does not reverse boxing history. other than chris byrd, calvin brock, and eddie chambers, wladimirs opponents have all been fitted into that category. those were the only 3 live bodies he fought. chagaev was slipping and in my opinion ibragimov wasn't very talented, who wlad beat in a hideously dull fight. vitali's livest opponents were arreola and solis who hurt his knee so early no one knows how that fight would've gone. future historians will appreciate their skills, but the film of their opponents coming into their title shots will not make them rate the brothers based off of who they beat. impressive showings with haye and adamek will help though.
If all things are equal the bigger man wins the fight. Boxing history shows that. Ali, Foreman, Liston, Lewis, Bowe, Wladimir and Vitali...
Please use facts. Ali was outweighed by Sonny Liston twice and by George Foreman, his three best wins. When Ali lost, he outweighed Joe Frazier and Ken Norton by 10 pounds each. Liston was not a dominant champion. I don't count the post-Tyson era, because it's just a bunch of fat plodding dinosaurs punching each other drunk. But if you want to discuss that, let's do it. Lennox and Bowe had tremendous difficulty getting the HW title from a small old man named Evander Holyfield. In fact, they were embarrassed. Lennox was put to sleep by 2 lighter men. The Klitschkos fight in a weak era full of fat bozos. Despite that, Vitali was embarrassed by Chris Byrd and Wlad was decimated by the much smaller Lamon Brewster and Corrie Sanders.
My point is that you haven't done your homework, because: Lennox was put to sleep by the smaller McCall, and then beat a shot, drugged and untrained version of him years later (careful cherrypicking). Lennox struggled tremendously against Holyfield, who was an old man. Tyson didn't train for the Douglas fight, and besides that, Tyson put him on the canvas for 14 seconds. Johanson and Patterson proves my point: in 2 out of 3 fights, the lighter man won. Liston beat a glass-jawed Patterson. Sonny was not a dominant champ. The dominant ones were 90% cruiserweights. Louis and Braddock weighed the same, and the younger man won. Willard beat a shot Johnson who had seen too many wars and was just tired of the long fight. This fight proves nothing. Jeffries vs Fitzsimmons is your only good example so far. Vitali vs Hide - you have to be joking. This proves how desperate you are. Only you and Herbie's mom know who he is. Vitali vs a shot, fat Sanders is not a good example. Sanders weighed 10 pounds less in his previous fight, when he KOed Wlad. He was out of shape for Vitali, getting ready to retire when Vitali convinced him to take the fight. Wlad v Ibragimov - Sultan was not a great fighter. Foreman v moorer - Moorer was a glass-jawed fighter. A lucky punch saved George here. Foreman v Frazier - Frazier was fat and out of shape - weighed 10 pounds heavier than when he beat Ali. Some of your examples are valid, but if you have "many more", why not write the good ones instead of the mostly ridiculous ones you wrote? The point is, yes there are a few cases in which the heavier man won, but 90% of the time the smaller man won. Of course, I'm talking about two great fighters. Not Herbie Hide. Deal?
Size is not just weight. And anyway I wouldn't call two or three the pounds "bigger". Ali had a two inch reach on Foreman, five on Liston, Holyfield lost to both Bowe and Lewis. And Klitschko haters must have the words Brewster, Sanders, Purrity, tatooed on their brain...