If Haye beats Wlad and Vitali back to back is he a top15 HW?

Yeah man, it's really sad. Stonehands really has been reiterating how the trainers out there are declining and that the old school techniques aren't being passed down. And he's right. And with how much different amateur has become. It's almost like they're too different sports (Ams and Pro). You wonder how many bad habits and things get improperly taught just to try to flurry and steal rounds. I mean just thinking about it now. How many recent world champions out there have really have an amateurish type style.

Besides the talent pool possibly shrinking (But not in the Eastern block of the world), the de-evolution of boxing is due to an absence of great trainers. I really started to think about this more when Bouie Fisher, B-Hop's old trainer died. Both Hopkins and Toney are the last breed from the world of trainers that taught old-school knowledge and techniques. Incidentally, these where the only guys that seemed to watch the old school fighters on tape to study as well.

I mean, Haye is supposed to be an elite HW. The guy's balance is atrocious. Wlad was putting some pressure on his head but Haye was so out of balance that Wlad moves back and scraps his left hand on his head and knocks him over. My sister even noticed this and she doesn't watch boxing.

"That guys balance is so bad."

"His legs are so far apart. He doesn't look solid. He looks so off-balance."

You can get away with that against Valuev. Not against the best of the best.

As for Wlad, I mean he's a beast at going octopus. But any real fighter that could legitimately force him to repeatedly go octopus every 5-10 seconds would force any neutral ref to warn him. And not in the way Haye did flopping to the ground after getting grabbed once a round. There definitely seems to be a different stem of beliefs on this and rules from people of Steward's position (Who regularly train tall jabbing fighters & HWs) as opposed Rooney-Cus-Tyson type people of the world. I know Harold Letterman is driven nuts by Wlad's style and clinching in the Peters-Wlad I fight. I don't know either.

Sad day for HW boxing.

 

Heres an interesting question for you, will there ever be another great peek a boo schooled fighter or will Tyson forever be the last one??

 

atschatschatsch ******.

So Bummy Brewster can reach Wlad, drop him 2 times And KO him in 5 rounds, Caveman Peter can drop Wlad 3 times - BUT Frazier And Tyson could not reach Wlad?? :huh:huh:huh

 

According to some, Wlad would even KO the man in your avatar

 

:rofl:rofl:roflatsch


I bet SEAMUS does, teh bloody Klit-Hugger! :nut

But this is all i need to see -


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzISYRTl2h0[/ame]

 

Hm, I think Dempsey and Tyson with their speed, combinations, power, head movement and footwork take Wlad out early. Frazier has a great chance to grind him down but I think Wlad has the same chance of keeping him at bay and either stop him late or win on points. Foreman would get taken apart by Wlad. I still rank Frazier and Foreman - slightly - above Wlad. Tyson clearly. While IMO Wlad already ranks above Dempsey.

 

Haye did better than I thought he would.
The idea of him beating Wlad was quite preposterous from the outset.

 

Come on ... 4 round fight and a past prime version. You can do better than that. Wlad´s great but Dempsey and Tyson are just wrong for him stylistically - although I have to admit that Klitschko has a good chance versus Jack, if he survives the first few rounds he win, doubt he will though.

 

For my view, see left.

 

Oh, the woes of the heavyweight division. There is nothing new in this proclamation. I heard it during Holyfield's reign when he fought Foreman and Holmes, heard it when Spinks won the title... It was heard during Liston's reign, Marciano's (a bunch of old men) and certainly Louis' with the Bum of the Month Club.

Regarding Wlad's status and observations of his effort yesterday. It is obvious that with the help of Manny he has mastered the use of the jab as defense. Haye, despite his touted athleticism, his good physical shape (an accusation to the counter which is made regarding many Klit defenses), his decent reach and power, he could simply not close the gap. Wlad is able to use the jab, even when it is not landing with great frequency, to control pace and distance. Due to well documented stamina issues and perhaps inflated concerns regarding this beard, he must control both factors. And he may be the best at this who ever fought in the division. Unfortunately, for the fans it is not the most exciting form of boxing to watch, especially when he is so mind-numbingly efficient at it.

Therein also lies part of the answer to previously aired thoughts on body punching versus the Waldo. The mere threat of his jab is so daunting after a few rounds that it tips the risk/reward balance of this approach decidedly against attempts. No one is willing to take the punishment to close the gap and on the rare occasion when they do he is simply too strong in the clinch. It is more due a preponderance of physical assets than any technique, any schooling or fancy feints will overcome...Though, I am still waiting for someone to time his clinch, take a step back and uppercut. Easier said than done, I suppose.

Lastly, I think Wlad is on the decline. He is 35 years old, almost 60 fights in and is showing a bit of rust on his timing and bit more stiffness throwing the right and seems stubbornly content with the same fight plan for each encounter (why fix what ain't broken?). I don't think he is on a precipitous decline, but is definitely only moving in that direction.

 

I think that stylistically, Dempsey, Frazier, Marciano, even Fitzsimons are all very difficult for Wlad. I think he will really struggle with someone who doesnt fight at long range. His clinch and grab tactic is effective but over rated. Corrie Sanders beat him by getting inside and landing big. I think Most of the greats probably repeat that (although i wouldnt be surprised if some get KOd trying). I also think that Wlad vs Ali would be a hell of a lot closer than most people think.

 

You really must have had low expectations? jeez