Talk about what Haye was reduced to, not what he "didn't" do.

Best thread I've seen on the topic to be honest.

Can't say I've been surprised with the knee jerk reactions and vitriol towards Haye, a lot of people bought into the hype of this fight instead of looking at the how fight would likely play out.

Gooners, before the fight you and I discussed about Haye taking away the Wlad's jab and if it would affect his offensive output. I see in this thread you've pretty much summed up how this turned out.

I was actually surprised with how Haye was actually able to stand in front of Wlad and make him miss a lot of jabs with his head movement. Not only that, but I thought that this really did stop Wlad from throwing his right hand. However, as well as Haye did defensively it came at a cost, he was so occupied with his defence that he was never able explode out into his offence.

What we learnt really is that you CAn reduce Wlad's offence by making the jab miss, but even it that's successful he is applying to much pressure for you to capitalise on it.

I few notes from the fight:

- I predicted that Haye would not be able to take Wlad's right hand and would be KOd as the fight went on. I was impressed that he was able to take a few solid shots well.

- I thought that if he really wanted to then Wlad could havbe got the KO last night. He had a man resorting to lunging in with amateurish punches and falling well off balance, but he never looked to capitalise. Whenever haye attacked his only concern was ensuring he stepped back and out of range. He never looked to get in the position to land shots when Haye was coming forward off balance. Steward clearly told Wlad that when he steps back he should do so with a hook to catch Haye coming in.

- I think that Wlad's problem is that he is a two mode fighter.He is either in defensive or offensive mode. His offence consists of pressing forward and pinning his opponent down behind the jab, and when that is landing pop off a right hand take take a half step back out of range. Then when someone attacks, he switches into defence and only focuses on getting out of range. Then when he is out of range he resets and goes into offence. There doesn't seem to be any fluidity or a link between the two.

 

I am not sure what fight you were watching. Haye did nothing but try and survive. He didn't try to get inside he winged wild right hands from about 6 feet outside, was not aggressive, didn't want to engage, faked being thrown down MULTIPLE times, he basically just showed up and tried to last the distance and was 100% OK with that. That is why just about every Boxing writer is criticizing Haye who did nothing but make promises and talk big then show up and do nothing. Do you not understand this?

 

Rico, stick to getting your ridiculous glass jaw predictions wrong. Leave the real boxing discussion to us please.

 

What I posted has been echoed by:

The HBO announcers. Boxing writers for ESPN, Yahoo, Ring Magazine, and just about everyone else that isn't British. Haye showed up and did NOTHING. The Wlad opponents Haye criticized like Brock, Peter, Thompson, etc. did better than he did. :roflatsch Haye stunk out the joint and was reduced to faking being thrown to the canvas. He was looking to the referee for help after taking simple Jabs :roflatsch

I understand what you are doing and you are not fooling anyone. Haye did not even try and he has nobody to blame but himself and his gullible fans.

 

What's funny is that I don't even know what point of mine it is that you've taken issue with. In my post I say that Haye was reduced to nothing but lunging amateurish punches, which is more or less exactly what you also said.

- I haven't said that Haye took the fight to Wlad or really did anything at all.

- I said that he did nothing but pathetic leaping punches from the outside, which you have also said.

- I picked Wlad to win the fight in the same fashion that he did, except I thought he's stop Haye.

So what is your actual issue with what I said?

The majority of my post was actually about how Wlad had a guy diving in on him and missing by miles and being left horrible off balance, yet Wlad did not try to capitalise on this even once. He simply allowed Haye to get back into position before going back to pressing behind the jab.

I assume your issue is that I've said Wlad could have definitely closed the show last night, which obviously does not fit into your pathetic 'glass jaw' agenda where the only reason Haye wasn't KO'd was because he was running a marathon.

 

I will say what Haye did was not running like he did in the Valuev fight I don't think I saw him back peddle once in the fight he was using legit side to side movement but my issue is he literally didn't try to do anything but survive. That was my point. Haye looked fine defensively but offensively he was atrocious. It wasn't as bad as the Wlad/Ibragimov fight but it wasn't very exciting either. I was hoping Haye would push Wlad and give us a good entertaining fight but he simply just showed up and wanted to go 12 which to me makes zero sense.

 

I get what you're saying. But I think we are measuring Haye's performance up against his bluster rather than his opponent. I think he was competing....I think he was looking to land, but couldn't find any spots due to Wlad's jab and defense, which I thought was an underappreciated aspect of his fight last night.

Haye didn't bring the noise last night, because I think he realized that leaving himself open would end up in him being KO'd.

An action fight is what he promised. And especially after his criticisms of the Klits style and being boring, makes his tactics last night a little bit harder to stomach. He deserves the criticism for all that, but I still think he gave a 100% effort.

He talked way into this fight. If I remember correctly, he talked a big game before the Valuev fight too, and fought a completely different fight than advertised.... Why should we be surprised now?

 

Seems to me as though you misjudged what Haye was capable of doing and are a bit angry about it. For me, Haye's success would be dependent how Wlad handled the fight. If Wlad fought his usual fight with no mistakes then he would win comfortably.

I think Haye turned up fully intending to, and believing he could KO Wlad but like most of his opponents he soon found out that it wasn't going to be as easy as it looked on tape.

I think to say that Haye just turned up to go 12 does Wlad's performance a massive disservice. He showed great ring generalship in completely manipulating Haye about the ring with his footwork and jab. His control of the distance was great and his little step off out of range when Haye came forward completely nullified any offence that he did attempt.

My only criticism is that when you've got a fighter diving in as appallingly as Haye was last night, you really have to pounce on them and take them out. Haye ended up tumbling forward completely defenceless on a number of occassions and all Wlad was concerned about was keeping well out of his way untul he could push back on with his jab. I think that's a valid criticism.

 

I thought Haye's movement was superb he just didn't try to engage. I am just complimenting Haye and last night had me wondering if it would have been a guy like Jack Dempsey in there or Larry Holmes someone who could move and was willing to mix it up what would have happened. I have been hard on Haye in the past but after watching the fight about 4 times he did OK except he just did not put out any offense at all hardly and it is why he only won one round.

 

I agree, good post.

 

I think so too, all good points. It wasn't until very late in the fight he started thinking he could catch Haye with a check hook. He fought a bit too careful and it seemed if he would just let his hands go more the fight would have ended early. But I know its just not his way. And that's why he gets **** on while dominating. This is a good thread, best one I've seen on this fight.

 

:deal

 

Haye ran his mouth but he gets my credit for finally fighting the best man in his division unlikehey, let's not go there).

He did well to slip the punches and did catch Wlad at times because Wlad walked straight back which is a bad habit. People say he "ran" and "fought scared the whole fight", how about in the early rounds when he put his hands completely down to lure Wlad to come in. That was pretty brave to do especially against the hardest puncher in the division(PFP too). Haye did well to land body jabs in the first rd which won him it but Wlad backed him up with the jab and didn't let it turn into the fight Haye wanted it too. I like how the Klitschkos can still press the fight but maintain offense and make punches roll off their shoulders or barely miss which Wlad showed yesterday. Haye looked bad but Wlad DOMINATED the fight completely and it was just his day to shine. Wlad WAS the reason Haye looked so bad and should be credited for sticking to his gameplan and winning widely for doing so.

 

I picked this fight as a stinker if anyone cares to look up my posts. Professional boxing is entertainment as much as it is sport. Neutralizing your opponent isn't really enough. You have to make your openings too. Wlad was the one coming forward though. Do we give Haye credit for neutralizing Wlad's offense? This could cut both ways.

I picked Wlad all the way. Manny did have a point in the corner though. He made Haye miss and didn't make him pay. Haye gets some credit for keeping Wlad a little tentative. This fight could/should have been better. Haye gets most of the blame and you can't really fault Wlad too much for taking what David gave him.