If Haye beats Wlad and Vitali back to back is he a top15 HW?

Interesting opinion, Wlad still appears "Peak" physically, technically & mentally in my mind.

Age is just a number, with unique implications for everybody & to me it hasn't effected him negatively yet.

 

As opposed to Haye : a nobody brought from Britain hyped up as a challenger. Lousy skills, big mouth and no heart.

 

Helenius needs several more fights. He has potential.

 

Potential to beat Wlad? :huh

Aswell as more experience, he would need a better trainer to attempt such a feat.

 

Sanders would beat Ali, hardly a never been.

 

I don't know, I hope there will be. It seems what we're doing is changing the language. How many times have you heard Bernstein or some analyst refer to Abraham or Clottey as fighting out of a peek a boo style.

It's the absolute anti-thesis of the peek a boo style, that's the funniest part. Gloves up a bit higher, so visually it looks similar I guess.

I think Tyson will be the last great peek a boo schooled fighter. Sad thing to say, but that's what I think.

At least the crouch isn't dead. We still have Vic Darchinyan.

 

Still good enough to beat Brennan, Willard and Weinert.

Is this a joke? Sharkey, Gibbons were leagues better than Austin, hell, even Brennan, Miske, Carpentier, Levinsky, Fulton and Smith were better.

 

I'm not saying he will beat Wlad.
Maybe if Wlad slips a bit, and Helenius improves.
But he's probably the best current hope to provide a challenge down the road. Of course he may not be.

He's probably better off waiting until Wlad retires or waiting for Klitschko to give up one of the belts.

 

Your thread was completely hypothetical. I have imagination to expand my mind. I gave Haye less odds than you did, remember?

I'm speaking out of emotion so it would clearly be no easy task. Don't mistake that. But I do think Dempsey and Frazier are the perfect foil. The only question is their durability and a fair ref. Of course, Haye's durability was questioned but he was riding Wlad's punches while moving away. Big difference. "Tyson could beat him?" Tyson would destroy him. Wlad only chance at victory is a ref that will let him clinch 50 times a round. He'd probably DQ himself against Tyson.

 

I hope Wlad gives up a belt to a avoid an annoying mandatory against someone undeserving/someone he's already beaten. Then Helenius can pick up a belt & be built-up as a possible star.

Totally agree with you Pete. :good

 

People give Wlad too much credit. Who really, really tried to get pass the jab and press him. I'm not talking slipping the jab so their head doesn't fly off. I mean press forward after slipping the jab? Easier said than done, I know. But most fighters try slipping and countering from a distance. Haye had Wlad in uncomfortable positions backing up to feints and forward movement only for Haye to give up the range he negotiated for. Pitiful. Believe you me, if you don't think the opposition is making Wlad appear greater I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you think his jab is godly and no man can get passed it. Although video evidence suggests that's false, and that people just don't know what to do once they're near or on the inside.

To think Frazier couldn't get passed the jab. Pay too much of a price. Maybe he really doesn't have the durability. Maybe. I think he gets passed the jab, though. And he's got to worry about that left hook too? Yeah, Wlad will hook with the hooker. Go throws it as a single punch anyway. And he wouldn't dare against Frazier. He's deathly afraid to get countered, let alone hit whenever it's possible to feint and just not throw punches and ensure safety of punches to the face.

Imagine the ref from last night with Frazier in the ring against Wlad.

Imagine Emanuel Steward. "Wlad you're giving the fight away, I don't know what you're doing. You're not throwing enough punches your just clinching this guy. He's out-working you!"

 

:good

We both understood Haye needed to be aggressive in order to win. He talked like he knew this, which is why we thought he might've adjust his style in an effort to make the comfort fighter Wlad, uncomfortable. While buying a little into the idea that Haye would actually take chances, we still gave him no more than a 20% chance. Less of a chance than most people. Remember when I laughed and told you that a Wlad decision had a chance. It turns out, Haye was more defensive than we thought, just looking for the predictable single shot overhand right to counter Wlad. And Wlad was his usual self, with no real animosity or promises to go for "KO #50." What a shame. Turns out both guys are worse than we thought.

 

After the 11th, i convinced my mates at the pub that Wlad would push for the final round knockout, as he did against Chambers, & to keep his promise of "David Haye will be my 50th knockout", & "I will finish him with Steelhammer in the 12th", however it sadly didn't come. I saw Wlad open the round with a ramrod jab, appearing as if he was going for the knockout, but everytime Wlad closed in to finish things, Haye would do what i call a "faux rush" in that he'd fake going for a knockout himself for a few seconds (but back-up himself when Wlad got on the backfoot), to put Wlad off doing so to him. At one point Haye seemed to stun Wlad with a righthand, but being clinched for one second after it landed made Haye passive, with no intention of following-up. A shame, because i thought of the Cus quote, in which he explained how a opponent may still be hurt from a big shot landed, but act like they are fine... maybe Wlad was still slightly shaken when the clinch ended.

 

Wlad felt that and I think he may have been more hurt in that moment then either fighter was. He clinched for nearly 10-20 seconds until the ref finally broke them.

Wlad showed some urgency after having been embarrassed from getting caught and maybe hurt I think. But after Haye dodged and did the "faux rushes" as you've labelled (A great name I must say) them, Wlad backed up and then got back into the feint, flinch, starring contest that had persisted for the previous 12 rounds.

I have to say you're a real optimist to have thought Wlad would go for the KO in the 12th. After the previous 11th I didn't think Wlad would risk it, and even worried Haye wouldn't really go for it.

 

Great post.