Do you agree with these Tiers of Greatness for 90s-00s fighters?

This system does not include fighters who won their 1st world titles in the 1980s or peaked in the 1980s, eg Whitaker, Chavez, McCallum, Tyson, etc etc.



Tier One

Manny Pacquiao, Roy Jones Jr, Bernard Hopkins, Floyd Mayweather Jr


Tier Two

Oscar De La Hoya, Lennox Lewis, Erik Morales, Marco Antonio Barrera


Tier Three

James Toney, Felix Trinidad, Shane Mosley, Juan Manuel Marquez


Tier Four

Winky Wright, Kostya Tszyu, Joe Calzaghe, Ricardo Lopez


Tier Five

Terry Norris, Jose Luis Castillo, Wladimir Klitschko, Rafael Marquez




Of course there are fighters I haven't listed, but I'm just looking for feedback on the general system and placings. I think they show the range of fighters who could be considered 'great', and the levels of greatness from 1-5, and the types of fighters in each category.

Thoughts? :bbb

 

Norris should be higher, and Wlad and Tszyu should be on the same level, regardless of what tier you choose for them. Lopez should probably be in tier 3 and Toney in Tier 4, as there's a massive discrepency between who he's actually officially beaten and his perceived skill level. I'm not sure Castillo should be there at all.

 

Toney's win resume, official or unofficial, absolutely trashes Lopez's resume.

I scored Castillo-Mayweather 1 for Castillo, so I had to take that into consideration.

I disagree on Wlad and Tszyu, but it's a fair call.

 

Nah, it beats it, not trashes it. And Lopez's victory over Rosendo Alvarez is better than anything Toney ever did. Yep, including his win over an ancient McCullum and Nunn. But I've always been an advocate of depth, and Toney beats Lopez on that score.

When it comes to these topics, I tend to think that only official outcomes should count unless we're talking a Whitaker/Chavez injustice.

 

Hopkins too high given losses/close fights at every weight division
Lewis too low considering his level of dominance
Toney too high based on those listed beneath him
Calzaghe too low based on beating a guy in Tier 1, longevity and 2 weight champion

 

In fact, I'd be tempted to have Alvarez up there in Tier 5 instead of Castillo.

 

There's a strong case for all of Tier 2 to be above Hopkins so IMO Hopkins should move down.

 

I don't think Tito and JMM should be a level below Oscar. I think Marquez is right there with Morales and Barrera.

I think Mosley should drop a tier too

 

I dont think Alvarez deserves that quite yet

 

Wrong Alvarez dude

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=4873&cat=boxer

 

He's talking about Rosendo Alvarez, not Canelo.

 

:rofl Yeah i got that wrong. In that case youre right

 

I think you're really overrating Rosendo Alvarez on this thread. Toney's win over Nunn is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than Lopez's over Alvarez. In every conceivable way other than consistency, Toney's resume trashes Lopez's IMO.

I disagree on the official/unofficial outcomes point as well. It's the same principle as I use in all my list threads, I cannot call something a win if I don't think it was a win, to me that seems illogical/non-sensical. JMHO.

 

I have no idea who you are, so I'm very surprised you have such a strong opinion on me. Thus, you are either a stalker or an alt. Either way, I couldn't care less about your opinion on anything. I have stacks of messages saying my list threads are the best threads ever seen on the General Forum, I'll go with their judgement rather than the judgement of some weird stalker-troll like you.

:good

 

Alvarez was a very good fighter...but I can't see any argument for him being more accomplished or better ability wise than Nunn or even an old McCallum.

His career panned out no better than even Jirov's really.