Do you agree with these Tiers of Greatness for 90s-00s fighters?

Wlad should be higher, JMM should be lower, and Floyd should be in tier 4 but other than that everything is just about right. Norris could be higher but I would have him in the same class as Wlad, Wright, and/or Tszyu so maybe Floyd should be 5 but no way in hell should hee be higher than 4(Toney has better wins for instance).

 

One again you come up with names that had done big things in the past, but failing to acknowledge that they did nothing subsequently and were therefore clearly on the way down/at the end of their careers and basically on the level of fringe contenders/journeyman. People overrate and underrate resumés terribly due to this massive flaw.

 

Almost perfect except Floyd should be in tier 4 or 5. Guy is too overrated.

 

Sorry, Toney's win over Nunn was pretty huge. The way he did it shows his weaknesses, but the win itself is the bottom line.

 

No roy jones debates yet?

 

He also beat Trinidad (who was a beast and highly ranked pfp at that time) I don't care what it says on paper. I'm sorry, if you win no less than 8 rds and go the decision then you win the fight(I only thought he lost 9-12 but even if you're very generous the most you could give Trinidad is 4 rds). Titles don't really mean anything if you're beating Baldomirs but overall DLH is better/greater and this is from a Shane fan.

 

Sorry, Toney's win over Nunn was pretty huge. The way he did it shows his weaknesses, but the win itself is the bottom line.

Ditto with the Reggie Johnson win. I still think Lopez's win over dominant champion Alvarez (who himself beat future champions) is the superior single victory, but that's one win. I already acknowledged that Toney had the greater depth of wins on the first page.

 

Lennox should be in the top tier imo. Bernard and Roy are debatable for the top, yes Roy was brilliant but his string of fights at light heavy and losses have really tarnished his career for me. Bernard, he's come on late but had a lot of close fights . Toney is probably 4th or 5th for me Wladimir and Joe 3rd tier.

 

I thought you were still talking about Nunn, I never bothered reading the post. I in the main agree about Toney's resume being superior to Lopez's.

And the 91 version of McCullum that Toney drew with was still a top fighter, definitely. He won the WBC title directly afterwards without another defeat between, so yeah, he was still top quality. As for Jirov, as he moved up to heavyweight you can only really go on whether he seemed to be regressing as a cruiserweight, and he didn't, so he counts as a good win too.

 

Yes, Marquez IMO still hasn't proved his greatness as there are too many question marks on his record(not his fault) such as Pacquiao 2, maybe Norwood, and John. The skills have always been there but I question whether he's great or not as I consider him very good overall FTM. The pressure on him as the "last great Mexican" has risen him up in people's eyes because Morales & Barrera are much more faded though it's hard to justify if he's on the cusp of greatness or already there.



Calzaghe did not beat Hopkins and not fighting Ottke(regardless who's fault that was) or Dawson late in his career instead of fossil Jones hurts him. He was very good but I think of Jones more highly as a SMW for the very short time he was one. Lacy was NOT the kind of guy to have a defining fight against but he was good and that was a good win for Calzaghe which he should've had earlier. IMO Kessler was his defining fight but it doesn't look good that he only tested himself much later in his career. I heard 5 0f the 7 ranked guys he fought in his reign had losses b4 Joe fought them(sigh).




I already adressed Shane/DLH earlier in this thread though I feel he gets a bit underrated nowadays and gets too much criticism for his loss to Pacquiao though he lost against the best p4p fighter now and was shot. I do agree that rivals should not be ranked in the same tier because they're rivals.

 

Tier One

Manny Pacquiao, Roy Jones Jr, Bernard Hopkins


Tier Two

Oscar De La Hoya, floyd mayweather jr, toney, morales


Tier Three

tzyu, lopez, norris, mab, shane and tito


Tier Four

Lewis, wlad


Tier Five

Jose Luis Castillo, Rafael Marquez, calzaghe, winky


Ok tier 1 is the true elite, guys who wouldn't look out of place on a top 30 atg, their greatness is evident and their mix of resume, legacy and skillset puts them above the others imo.

Tier 2 are guys just outside that top set for 1 reason or another. For example oscar has the resume but not the dominance. Floyd has too many gaps that are not necessarily all his fault but I wouldn't make him a clear favourite, toney had his dismal spell at lhw and if it wasn't for his legendary swansong at hw i'd argue against him being mentioned.

Tier 3 guys who had a very good career across multiple weights or a great career in 1 weight.

Tier 4

These guys where dominant champions who cleaned house but they're competing with such great peers in their respective divisions they will find it difficult to stand out.

Tier 5

These are guys who look out of place imo. Just something about them makes me question their inclusion.

Yeah calzaghe doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I mean he was champ for two defences and his best victory is over a 42 year old! The winner of s6 probably overtakes him at the division anyway.

 

Calzaghe was not as dominant. During most of his time he didn´t fight the man who was ranked number one by ring magazine - Ottke. And even afterwards he wasn´t dominant. Kessler was there as his next big rival. And after they met he moved up, had big money fights and retired. Sorry, he was never the dominant smw champ his nuthuggers make him out to be. For most of the time he was just a beltholder and and only at the end he was the champ for a short while. Wlad in comparison is seen as the champ now for three years and the consensus best since more than 5. And he is very dominant, cleaning house beating everyone the Top10 has to offer, or the men who beat them - he even beat the man who beat his brother, Byrd - but Povetkin who avoids him. That´s better than what Calzahge did.
You might say Calzaghe´s win over Hopkins helps him up there, well, I had him losing that one.

I don´t hate Calzaghe. I liked him. A bit gutted that he didn´t make more of his talent but that´s how boxing sometimes goes. I don´t like his nuthuggers though. They are annoying.

Nah, I think Floyd has excellent work done at 130/135 and he looked as good as anyone there. Above it´s getting thin but even there he had one or another good performance - Hatton, Mosley. He needs Pac to cement his legacy though. Desperatly.